D&D General D&D, magic, and the mundane medieval

[Oofta]

Of course, wizards don't actually follow any of the paths you described traditionally.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[pemerton]

If that works for you. Seems a little too "clap your hands if you believe" to me though.

Well presumably it's in the vicinity of what actual mediaeval people believed were the actual results of the prayers, magic etc being performed by real-life hermits, priests, miracle-workers etc.

 

[pemerton]

It seems like a way to dodge the issue, since it doesn't require changing anything.

Nothing is being "dodged". It's a way to reconcile magic with the faux-mediaeval: assume a baseline in which magic is a necessary condition of the faux-mediaeval emerging and enduring.

If one assumes a real-world baseline and then the additional powers of magic, the implications are absurd - or at least extreme - as many posters in this thread have pointed out.

 

[pemerton]

I base this on pre computers people HAD to know math... every farmer every builder every smith uses math

Mediaeval farmers, builders, etc did not use mathematics. They used folk knowledge and techniques.

 

[MGibster]

Come to think of it, wouldn't being illiterate be a huge barrier to wizardry? I know everyone in D&D is literate, but not many people in the medieval world were.

 

[Maxperson]

3) My point has always been, and remains, that the floor for learning to cast spells cannot rationally be the heights of professional advancement, but the practical usage of working people, even if only those at the higher end of the journeyman’s skill and knowledge. This is why “how many mathematicians in Europe” is not a question I see any value in the answer to. It doesn’t tell us anything we cannot glean from the effect of mathematics on crafts, architecture, economics, astronomy, chemistry, and whatever else, over many generations, because one needn’t be Newton to use mathematics or even to learn advanced mathematics like calculus and apply it to solutions to practical problems.

Learning some math or physics does not a mathematician or physicist make. What you are describing with the person learning some math is a person who took the magic initiate feat and got a few cantrips. That's not a spellcaster. Spellcasters have a PhD in spellcasting.

So yes, the heights of professional advancement can in fact rationally be the floor for becoming a spellcaster.

 

[Maxperson]

It seems like a way to dodge the issue, since it doesn't require changing anything.

It does. You have to change the lore of the world. Suddenly the world is vulnerable to disruption(locally and globally) of the hard work it is taking to keep things just okay.

 

[Maxperson]

my guess (and I am no historian so this is pull out my backside numbers) between 25% and 50%.

I base this on pre computers people HAD to know math... every farmer every builder every smith uses math

Knowing some basic math =/= mathematician, though.

 

[Maxperson]

Surely if we're counting folks able to do some arithmetic as mathematicians, then you know enough history for us to count you as a historian. Having successfully put thoughts onto (virtual) paper it feels like you should also be open to claiming credit as a writer. ;-)

And probably an editor.

 

[cbwjm]

my guess (and I am no historian so this is pull out my backside numbers) between 25% and 50%.

I base this on pre computers people HAD to know math... every farmer every builder every smith uses math

Knowing basic arithmetic doesn't make you a mathematician. I know basic maths but I wouldn't, nor would anyone else, call me a mathematician.