D&D (2024) Return to the 3 saves for 1D&D?

[payn]

because going 20 levels never improving 4 out of 6 saves is dumb and a BAD idea when casters DCs go up

The problem is the pump and dump stats at no expense...oh wait

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The problem is the pump and dump stats at no expense...oh wait

what is pump and dump?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think everyone should have the bard's jack of all trades to a lesser extent... follow the cantrip progression and saves and skills you are not prof in you add +1 at 5th +1 at 11th and +1 at 17th to... but I also think ALL stats should go up at level 10 by 1 (character level not class level)

 

[Fifth Element]

I fight the poison with my fists...
no thanks

Since Strength represents much more than just how hard you punch things, this is a very silly response, and amounts to a misrepresentation of what Strength means in the game.

It's exactly equivalent to responding to your argument to combine Con and Cha instead by saying "I talk the poison out of affecting me... no thanks."

 

[Minigiant]

The think people don't get.

If WOTC doesn't learn the mistakes of the past, then in a 3 save system you WILL have a common save that you won't be able to increase.you weak save.

In a 3 save system with no lessons learned, the Resilient feat won't and can't exist. And 1/2 the party will have +2 to Will saves vs ALL illusions, enchantments, and psionics and their 15+ DCs.

 

[Fifth Element]

I think saving throws should be different based on what they're in response to. Like, I don't know, say, "dragon's breath," "spells," etc. We could have, like, five or six, and the numbers could change every few levels to make it easier and show progress. I think that would be a pretty unique and new way to do it!

And in addition to a non-all-encompassing list, we could have an arbitrary hierarchy because you'd need one due to the overlap in the categories!

 

[payn]

what is pump and dump?

Min/max, pick two stats forget the rest, etc...

I think everyone should have the bard's jack of all trades to a lesser extent... follow the cantrip progression and saves and skills you are not prof in you add +1 at 5th +1 at 11th and +1 at 17th to... but I also think ALL stats should go up at level 10 by 1 (character level not class level)

Then what does the Bard get? I like BA because it gets away from this idea you should just get better at everything because level. If you really want that in the game experience PF2 does it as a main feature.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Min/max, pick two stats forget the rest, etc...

that isn't what I am talking about though... so

Then what does the Bard get?

TBH the bard needs to get less... the bard without spells is about equal to a fighter or rogue, so it could use some toneing down.

I like BA because it gets away from this idea you should just get better at everything because level.

yeah why would you get better with experience... oh wait

If you really want that in the game experience PF2 does it as a main feature.

I don't play PF but 4e did it real good

 

[payn]

that isn't what I am talking about though... so

Actually, its exactly what you are talking about.

TBH the bard needs to get less... the bard without spells is about equal to a fighter or rogue, so it could use some toneing down.

Why? So the I hate bard memes can be correct?

yeah why would you get better with experience... oh wait

Right, because everything you are non-proficient in just gets better despite never going for a swim, picking a lock, intimidating anyone, etc...

I don't play PF but 4e did it real good

Then you would really like PF2.

 

[Pauln6]

I think everyone should have the bard's jack of all trades to a lesser extent... follow the cantrip progression and saves and skills you are not prof in you add +1 at 5th +1 at 11th and +1 at 17th to... but I also think ALL stats should go up at level 10 by 1 (character level not class level)

Nah I think the opposite - that expertise should only add half your proficiency (i.e. +1 to +3). Expertise leads to a subconscious desire on the part of DMs to make DCs higher, making it more difficult for untrained, or even trained characters to pass. Stand by bounded accuracy, keep the upper level tougher to achieve. At level 20 a character could still have +14 to a roll with expertise compared to +5 untrained. Number inflation is pointless.