Cypher System by Monte Cook Games: what do you think about it?

[Faolyn]

They can be but they don't have to be. And the GM is encouraged to curate the lists. (They are encouraged to curate everything to tweak the game towards their worldbuilding needs.) PCs can also trade cyphers among themselves as well.

OTH, finding a use for a "nothing useful" cypher that solves the current puzzle is peak Cypher.

The game is mostly just something we play occasionally when the other games fall through, not a steady campaign, so maybe the GM isn't putting in that much effort.

 

[Von Ether]

The game is mostly just something we play occasionally when the other games fall through, not a steady campaign, so maybe the GM isn't putting in that much effort.

That sounds likely. He might also look into Cypher Shorts, which really parse the game down and it doesn't even deal with Cyphers.

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OTH, Cypher has been agile enough that we've simply jumped to another genre as a one-shot when someone no shows for regular game. "Your magic is psionics and your crossbows are blasters."

 

[Thomas Shey]

That is the intended play structure of cyphers in the Cypher System. There should be no need to hoard them because you should be getting them as a regular part of play.

The point is that I wouldn't necessarily use them more; I'd just throw more away. It might very mildly increase my use, but honestly, consumeables are not only things I hoard because I might want them later, but often just because I forget about them.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Agreed. But no system is perfect and people discuss different aspects of the game along with newbies come into the Discord with questions all the time. Of all those questions and discussion, the particular assumption those mechanics are weaponized/punishment by a GM hasn't bubbled up from either newbies or old timers.

But knowing Murphy's Law, I have probably jinxed myself.

You only get to see what you get to see. I'm just suggesting that its entirely possible there are a fair number of people who run into problems with that, walk away from the game, and you never see at all. I've seen that with other games with problems just because I happen to encounter a few in other contexts.

At this point, I feel bad for gamers whose hobby life has lead them to the point they instinctually feel the need to protect themselves from abusive DMs by scouring though game mechanics. It definitely impacts what these players would consider "good" game design.

Over and above deliberately abusive GMs--but to make it clear, the more mild cases of that are not rare--Ezekiel's not wrong that there are a fair number of people who respond much more negatively to sticks than carrots.

To clarify, that's not saying you can't design a good game with that goal, but that's an extra load most game designers are not considering.

I'd suggest that most good ones are at least designing around the common mediocre GM to a fair degree, however. To not do so is to just shrug as a designer and figure that their bad experiences are their own fault, and I can't have much respect for that.

 

[Aldarc]

The point is that I wouldn't necessarily use them more; I'd just throw more away. It might very mildly increase my use, but honestly, consumeables are not only things I hoard because I might want them later, but often just because I forget about them.

Throw them out or consume them. It's no big deal either way as long as you don't hoard them.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Throw them out or consume them. It's no big deal either way as long as you don't hoard them.

Why? If I never consume them, what's the difference whether I happen to have them written on my sheet? The gameplay effect is exactly the same.

 

[Von Ether]

You only get to see what you get to see. I'm just suggesting that its entirely possible there are a fair number of people who run into problems with that, walk away from the game, and you never see at all. I've seen that with other games with problems just because I happen to encounter a few in other contexts.



Over and above deliberately abusive GMs--but to make it clear, the more mild cases of that are not rare--Ezekiel's not wrong that there are a fair number of people who respond much more negatively to sticks than carrots.



I'd suggest that most good ones are at least designing around the common mediocre GM to a fair degree, however. To not do so is to just shrug as a designer and figure that their bad experiences are their own fault, and I can't have much respect for that.

As I stated earlier, even outside of Cypher, I haven't run into many of those antagonistic GMs in a very long time. I also hazard mild cases probably don't cause a gut reaction for people to habitually assume X sort of rules are going to be weaponized.

Mediocre GMs are probably where game designers aim at. I think the thread, however, is in disagreement on what constitutes the behaviors of said mediocre GM. Which in turn has people disagreeing on what is seen as what is a stick/punishment/weaponizing vs. just a rule.

 

[Aldarc]

Why? If I never consume them, what's the difference whether I happen to have them written on my sheet? The gameplay effect is exactly the same.

Then play the game without cyphers and never pick any cyphers up because the gameplay effect is also the same.

 

[Von Ether]

Then play the game without cyphers and never pick any cyphers up because the gameplay effect is also the same.

During character creation, you can get an extra skill for each cypher slot you give up. The game plays fine without cyphers, but if you can include them in your worldbuilding it does spice up the setting (or helps further erase the serial numbers off the setting you lifted out of your favorite media.)

The game is mostly just something we play occasionally when the other games fall through, not a steady campaign, so maybe the GM isn't putting in that much effort.

There are also optional rules for subtle cyphers where spending an XP can help a player request a type of cypher or even a specific one if they want to chance rolling for it.

And thinking about it, random cyphers are no different than random potions and random scrolls. Though long standing D&D wisdom has been that if a player has a random Feather Fall, there DM is going to provide a cliff that needs jumping down from soon. LOL!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Then play the game without cyphers and never pick any cyphers up because the gameplay effect is also the same.

While I'm not a fan of how cyphers are present outside of the original game and think the system would be better outside that dependency, the fact I feel that way does not mean everyone else at the table will. Honestly, letting other people just take them for the most part is what I would do with occasional exceptions. If the game doesn't work doing that, that's not going to exactly be an advertisement for it from my POV.