Cypher System by Monte Cook Games: what do you think about it?

[Staffan]

I...genuinely 100% don't understand how the cypher limit doesn't, because using it as intended is screwing players over. "Oh, you decided not to consume valuable and essentially irreplaceable consumables on one-off benefits? Sucks to be you, suffer with penalties or forgo getting any more consumables." The rule by design screws players who are reluctant to consume resources.

One person's "screws players who are reluctant to consume resources" is another person's "encourage players to actually use consumables instead of hoarding them."

I mean, I can't be the only one who looks over D&D character sheets and still see potions and scrolls that have been there for five or more levels and by now have essentially outlived their usefulness since healing 2d4 hit points at level 8 isn't going to help anything.

 

[Aldarc]

One person's "screws players who are reluctant to consume resources" is another person's "encourage players to actually use consumables instead of hoarding them."

I mean, I can't be the only one who looks over D&D character sheets and still see potions and scrolls that have been there for five or more levels and by now have essentially outlived their usefulness since healing 2d4 hit points at level 8 isn't going to help anything.

It doesn't even screw players who are reluctant to consume resources. If you are reluctant to consume resources, then you are not screwed by not consuming the cyphers you have. It only becomes an issue if the PC hoards cyphers above that cap.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

One person's "screws players who are reluctant to consume resources" is another person's "encourage players to actually use consumables instead of hoarding them."

I mean, I can't be the only one who looks over D&D character sheets and still see potions and scrolls that have been there for five or more levels and by now have essentially outlived their usefulness since healing 2d4 hit points at level 8 isn't going to help anything.

It is entirely possible to create systems that reward non-hoarding rather than punishing hoarding.

If there is any way to avoid the stick, you should. It is much, much more effective to give players a reason to want to play the game as intended, of their own free will, rather than punishing them for failing to play it as intended until they wise up.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It just that some of the speculation on the whys of it doesn't match my actual experience of running the game for years or the many in-depth discussions with fellow Cypher GMs, so I'll agree to disagree on those points and bow out.

I do just have to note that people who have a serious problem with a core mechanic of a system are unlikely to stay with the system long (with the possible exception of D&D because of its networking force). So if you're hanging around with heavily Cypher oriented GMs, you've probably already preselected out the majority of people who have had serious problems with the system.

 

[Thomas Shey]

One person's "screws players who are reluctant to consume resources" is another person's "encourage players to actually use consumables instead of hoarding them."

I mean, I can't be the only one who looks over D&D character sheets and still see potions and scrolls that have been there for five or more levels and by now have essentially outlived their usefulness since healing 2d4 hit points at level 8 isn't going to help anything.

I think the phrase used when reading things like this is "I feel attacked by this relatable content".

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure punishing me for this behavior would not have the desired consequence unless you were very consistently giving me things I was going to find reliably useful, but simply make me discard them a lot.

 

[Aldarc]

I think the phrase used when reading things like this is "I feel attacked by this relatable content".

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure punishing me for this behavior would not have the desired consequence unless you were very consistently giving me things I was going to find reliably useful, but simply make me discard them a lot.

That is the intended play structure of cyphers in the Cypher System. There should be no need to hoard them because you should be getting them as a regular part of play.

 

[Von Ether]

I do just have to note that people who have a serious problem with a core mechanic of a system are unlikely to stay with the system long (with the possible exception of D&D because of its networking force). So if you're hanging around with heavily Cypher oriented GMs, you've probably already preselected out the majority of people who have had serious problems with the system.

Agreed. But no system is perfect and people discuss different aspects of the game along with newbies come into the Discord with questions all the time. Of all those questions and discussion, the particular assumption those mechanics are weaponized/punishment by a GM hasn't bubbled up from either newbies or old timers.

But knowing Murphy's Law, I have probably jinxed myself.

At this point, I feel bad for gamers whose hobby life has lead them to the point they instinctually feel the need to protect themselves from abusive DMs by scouring though game mechanics. It definitely impacts what these players would consider "good" game design.

To clarify, that's not saying you can't design a good game with that goal, but that's an extra load most game designers are not considering.

 

[Von Ether]

double post

 

[Faolyn]

Yes and? Cypher are to be used and not hoarded.

Part of the problem I have with them is that they're apparently supposed to be random, which means that you run the risk of having cyphers that do absolutely nothing useful, either for the character or the situation. Unless my GM is doing it wrong.

 

[Von Ether]

Part of the problem I have with them is that they're apparently supposed to be random, which means that you run the risk of having cyphers that do absolutely nothing useful, either for the character or the situation. Unless my GM is doing it wrong.

They can be but they don't have to be. And the GM is encouraged to curate the lists. (They are encouraged to curate everything to tweak the game towards their worldbuilding needs.) PCs can also trade cyphers among themselves as well.

OTH, finding a use for a "nothing useful" cypher that solves the current puzzle is peak Cypher.