D&D 5E Array v 4d6: Punishment? Or overlooked data

[Oofta]

Wait, what? A 10th level wizard had 40 hp as a base (6+9x4). With a 12 con that’s 50 hp. Or 30 with an 8 Con.

It’s a 20 point spread, not 30.

And that’s basically one hit. That’s it. Just one maybe two hits from a cr10 creature.

It really isn’t much of a difference.

It's a -1 every level with an 8 con so start with 5 and +3 every level. Grabbing a random brute CR 10 monster Crystal Golem does 19 points of damage on a hit, that 8 con wizard can take 2 hits, the 12 con wizard can take 4. That's a round for the wizard to misty step away, turn invisible, levitate or do something else to get out of danger. They're still class cannons of course.

 

[Hussar]

So exactly what I said. 1-2 hits.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

That's all. Higher con is beneficial to all PCs that ever take HP damage.

Oh, good. I can agree with this statement. It sounded like you were arguing something else for a bit there.

 

[Horwath]

Wait, what? A 10th level wizard had 40 hp as a base (6+9x4). With a 12 con that’s 50 hp. Or 30 with an 8 Con.

It’s a 20 point spread, not 30.

And that’s basically one hit. That’s it. Just one maybe two hits from a cr10 creature.

It really isn’t much of a difference.

that is literally difference between life and death.

wizards needs to survive a bad position for one round so it can reposition somehow or turn the tables.

with 8 Con you cannot survive a round at 5th level or 10th level or whatever level.

that is why I only saw 1 character in 5E with 12 Con in the games I played, all others were 14 con with few having 16.

right now, I play in two campaigns, out of 10 characters, 9 have 14 con and one has 16.

12 Con is risky, anything lower is suicide.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm saying that when I've had wizard PCs in a party they tend to die, or at least go unconscious, on a regular basis. In general tanking con is one of the worst choices, after all how often does strength matter to a wizard? Anything that can help a wizard (or rogue or whatever) stop from being knocked out of the fight is just going to be even more effective if you don't have a slightly higher con.

That's all. Higher con is beneficial to all PCs that ever take HP damage.

Wizards last a LOT longer in our games than Monks, Figthers and Paladins do. Bladesingers are the most survivable characters I've seen except maybe some corner-case Barbarians, and even rear guard Wizards that get wrapped up in melee usually don't take enough damage to go down because of shield, absorb elements, false life, contingency and similar spells.

Monks, Fighters and Paladins are the guys that go down the most IME, followed by Rangers, then Warlocks, then Rogues.

Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Barbarians and Sorcerers tend the last the longest, Barbarians because of the damage Reduction that comes with Rage, Clerics due to Death Ward, Druids because of shapeshifting, Wizards and Sorcerers due to the aforementioned spells.

Having more hps is always better, but Constitution does not give enough for a few more points to matter a whole lot IME.

 

[cbwjm]

I prefer a 10 minimum for Con depending on what I'm playing, it isn't as bad as people think. I have a 11 Con bard in my games, has she hit 0 hit points, yes, but she still survives and the game goes on.

 

[Oofta]

Wizards last a LOT longer in our games than Monks, Figthers and Paladins do. Bladesingers are the most survivable characters I've seen except maybe some corner-case Barbarians, and even rear guard Wizards that get wrapped up in melee usually don't take enough damage to go down because of shield, absorb elements, false life, contingency and similar spells.

Monks, Fighters and Paladins are the guys that go down the most IME, followed by Rangers, then Warlocks, then Rogues.

Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Barbarians and Sorcerers tend the last the longest, Barbarians because of the damage Reduction that comes with Rage, Clerics due to Death Ward, Druids because of shapeshifting, Wizards and Sorcerers due to the aforementioned spells.

Having more hps is always better, but Constitution does not give enough for a few more points to matter a whole lot IME.

Then they aren't being attacked as often. The math is pretty straightforward, your odds of survival go up with higher defenses and HP. Wizards, in general, have lower AC and significantly lower HP.

 

[ECMO3]

At 10th level the wizard an 8 con will have 32 HP, the wizard with a 12 con will have 62. They both have exactly the same options and tactics to avoid damage. One can simply survive twice as much damage as the other.

Maybe that extra 30 HP doesn't matter in your campaigns, it does in mine.

Not true. First off with a 12 Con he will have 52, not 62, so the base is about 60% more.

Second, when you consider those options and tactics - That 10th level Wizard with an 8 con has 5th-level false life which is about 58 total vs 78 for the same wizard with a 12. So it is about 30% more hit points when you consider "options and tactics", not twice as much, and it is less than that 30% when you consider that if you used point buy, that other wizard will have a better AC, better saves or both.

 

[Oofta]

Not true. First off with a 12 Con he will have 52, not 62, so the base is about 60% more.

Second, when you consider those options and tactics - That 10th level Wizard with an 8 con has 5th-level false life which is about 58 total vs 78 for the same wizard with a 12. So it is about 30% more hit points when you consider "options and tactics", not twice as much, and it is less than that 30% when you consider that if you used point buy, that other wizard will have a better AC, better saves or both.

I was assuming 14 con. Also, if one can have false life, both can have it. I see no reason their defenses would be different.

 

[ECMO3]

Then they aren't being attacked as often. The math is pretty straightforward, your odds of survival go up with higher defenses and HP. Wizards, in general, have lower AC and significantly lower HP.

Yes and defenses other than hit points are generally better. I had a bladesinger with a 10 constitution who was in melee every single opponent she faced and she went 4 entire levels without getting hit at all because she had a high dexterity, high intelligence, bracers of defense, staff of defense and good defensive spells.

In most combats enemies were swinging at her with disadvantage and it was not uncommon for them to need a double 20 to beat her AC with shield spell and if they did beat it and she had not already cast shield she would use silvery barbs. She went down once at like 3rd level when she was surprised and attacked like 6 times. She did not get hit with an attack at all again until 7th level and she was our primary melee character. Other characters went down occasionally, but not her and she had the fewest hps in the party and took by far the most attacks.

She did take damage from AOEs, but most of the time it could be mitigated with Absorb Elements. She was pretty badass, but she was not optimized. Due this with a Shadar-Kai so you have resistance to necrotic and can give yourself resistance to all damage with a bonus action and you will be even better.

If she had a higher constitution she would have had to play with a lower dexterity, wisdom or intelligence, all of which are much more important (wisdom for the saves).