Dragonlance Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen shows up in the wild!

[GMforPowergamers]

Now people are denying what challenge rating means? Really?

Yeah, sorry, but challenge rating does mean a specific thing.

“A single monster with a challenge rating equal to the adventurers’ level is, by itself, a fair challenge for a group of four characters.”

But that just goes to show how true it is that no one reads the DMG.

if the intent is

A single monster with a challenge rating equal to the adventurers’ level is, by itself, a fair challenge for a group of four characters.

and I totally believe that is the intent... it failed.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

An easy challenge is still a challenge

that is part of it... what is a 'fair challenge'?

is 90% win rate fair? does it have to be 99%? is a 50/50 chance fair?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Does that even matter. People start being brought back to life at 5th level with revivify. Death is just a speed bump in 5e.

Death being able to be undone does not change the definitions. Character death is stated as the primary risk, not party wipes.

 

[Maxperson]

An easy challenge is still a challenge

No. No it's not. A challenge is hard. Something easy is by definition not a challenge.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Now people are denying what challenge rating means? Really?

Yeah, sorry, but challenge rating does mean a specific thing.

“A single monster with a challenge rating equal to the adventurers’ level is, by itself, a fair challenge for a group of four characters.”

But that just goes to show how true it is that no one reads the DMG.

Again, CR is busted nonsense. As stated the CR19 Soth is a pushover for a 10th-level party of four…despite his CR indicating he’s supposed to be a fair challenge for a 19th-level party of four. Meaning he’s about 1/2 as effective as he should be.

I am pretty sure a 10th level party of 4 gets their ass kicked by him. Like now I feel he is being super downplayed.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Remember the level 14 party that beat a Death Knight where fighting the default Death Knight which are weaker than Soth.

If you mean my lot, they didn't just beat it, they stomped all over it. And they are far from the most tactically adept players you will ever meet.

And my CR 24 (according to the formula) death knight didn't do much better when they were level 16.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

No. No it's not. A challenge is hard. Something easy is by definition not a challenge.

No a Challenge is a test of ability by definition, it does not have to be difficult.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No CR 19 means a 19th level party should kick his ass, and that he should be dangerous to any party below that level. (Not that he should necessarily wipe any party below that, but that character death is a risk)

Hence "they need a different term". If Challenge Rating 19 monster isn't a challenge to 18th level characters, then they shouldn't use the word "challenge". Because, it isn't.

 

[Reynard]

According to Kobold Fight Club, CR 19 is Deadly before level 14. In my experience that is not true at all, especially for solos. Action economy accounts for A LOT in 5E.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think he has a high chance of killing people in a level 14 group.

CR means what it means. A group of equal level to the CR should have little difficulty defeating that monster. Even if you don’t think it should be that way, that is the definition.

I don't think it should be that way.