Dragonlance Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen shows up in the wild!

[Scribe]

Then they need a different term. Challenge Rating implies that a 19 should be a challenge for a 19th level group, not a pushover. Not that CR would be accurate even then, since party abilities vary so greatly.

I dont think thats what it means.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

One wonders then why it has a CR at all. If it isn't intended to be used anywhere but in this adventure at the point indicated in the text, what's the point of giving it a rating that's intended to give a GM information enough to decide when and where to use the statblock in their own adventures?

Because all statblocks have to include a CR, even unique special purpose bosses.

And it's calculated via a mathematical formula, it doesn't actually tell you anything meaningful.

You could, of course, use the statblock for something else, but as always, you need to use your DM's professional judgment as to its suitability.

 

[Maxperson]

No CR 19 means a 19th level party should kick his ass

But so does CR 1, CR 2, CR 3, CR 4, CR 5, CR 6, and so on. What makes CR 19 special?

CR 19 SHOULD mean that it's a challenge for a level 19 group. That's the only metric that makes sense for a CHALLENGE rating. If the CHALLENGE rating means that it's no challenge, doesn't that seem like a nonsense metric to you?

and that he should be dangerous to any party below that level.

Except people here are saying, and correctly so, that he'd get the tar handed to him by a level 14 group.

(Not that he should necessarily wipe any party below that, but that character death is a risk)

A CR 19 should be a challenge to a level 19 group, dangerous to 16-18 groups, and should wipe the floor with level 15 and below.

 

[Maxperson]

I dont think thats what it means.

It's certainly not what it does. The CHALLENGE level of a monster means that it's not a challenge at all to a party of not only the same level group, but to groups several levels lower. It's a nonsense rating.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

But so does CR 1, CR 2, CR 3, CR 4, CR 5, CR 6, and so on. What makes CR 19 special?

CR 19 SHOULD mean that it's a challenge for a level 19 group. That's the only metric that makes sense for a CHALLENGE rating. If the CHALLENGE rating means that it's no challenge, doesn't that seem like a nonsense metric to you?

Except people here are saying, and correctly so, that he'd get the tar handed to him by a level 14 group.

A CR 19 should be a challenge to a level 19 group, dangerous to 16-18 groups, and should wipe the floor with level 15 and below.

I think he has a high chance of killing people in a level 14 group.

CR means what it means. A group of equal level to the CR should have little difficulty defeating that monster. Even if you don’t think it should be that way, that is the definition.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Because all statblocks have to include a CR,

it doesn't actually tell you anything meaningful.

this is the best definition of CR I have ever seen

 

[Maxperson]

I think he has a high chance of killing people in a level 14 group.

Does that even matter. People start being brought back to life at 5th level with revivify. Death is just a speed bump in 5e.

CR means what it means. A group of equal level to the CR should have little difficulty defeating that monster. Even if you don’t think it should be that way, that is the definition.

So your contention is that Challenge =/= challenge.

 

[overgeeked]

Now people are denying what challenge rating means? Really?

Yeah, sorry, but challenge rating does mean a specific thing.

“A single monster with a challenge rating equal to the adventurers’ level is, by itself, a fair challenge for a group of four characters.”

But that just goes to show how true it is that no one reads the DMG.

Again, CR is busted nonsense. As stated the CR19 Soth is a pushover for a 10th-level party of four…despite his CR indicating he’s supposed to be a fair challenge for a 19th-level party of four. Meaning he’s about 1/2 as effective as he should be.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It's certainly not what it does. The CHALLENGE level of a monster means that it's not a challenge at all to a party of not only the same level group, but to groups several levels lower. It's a nonsense rating.

Remember the level 14 party that beat a Death Knight where fighting the default Death Knight which are weaker than Soth.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Does that even matter. People start being brought back to life at 5th level with revivify. Death is just a speed bump in 5e.

So your contention is that Challenge =/= challenge.

An easy challenge is still a challenge