D&D 5E (2014) Combat as war, sport, or ??

[Aldarc]

Hmmm...dunno...is the table made of vibranium?

No, because vibranium doesn't exist. We are simulating reality and not children's picture books.

 

[clearstream]

Were D&D combat as war, a common activity for characters would be massacring civilians and subjecting them to exemplary violence, to negate the ability of their polities to sustain resistance, and force them to surrender themselves and their resources. I think one could make an argument relating to the typical humanoid subjects of character violence that casts them as just such civilians. The point I would make - emphatically - is that war is not the application of strategy to prevail at the tactical layer. War is coersion by the least costly and most convenient means available. The military-industrial complex has warped "least costly" into "most profitable", of course. It's not that interactions between strategic, operational, and tactical layers are absent, it's that they are a possible means but not the overriding purpose or even a necessity of war.

Were D&D combat as sport, then we might expect to see some effort to pit equal challengers against one another. As others have argued, this too visibly falls short as a description of D&D play. (Although I am also sympathetic to arguments that defend this, as there visibly is some effort to establish a level of challenge, and in particular a level of challenge over a series of combats. Somewhat defeated by other choices made by the designers.)

I think one has to position D&D combat within both character-development (choices about the character that have mechanical implications) and adventure-development (the string of encounters and arc of adventure.) I might characterise D&D combat in two ways. 1) As an "arena of proof" in which player choices are validated against a routine of tests, with a modicum of in-the-moment skill deciding performance. 2) As overcoming a hurdle or obstacle to progress... beating a programmed challenge. (I'm describing here a sort of formulaic D&D presented in many published adventure modules, and not aiming to say that D&D as a game system is capable only of sustaining that kind of play.) I might label both cases as "Combat as Trial." This is consonant with play: the option to try something at stakes that one finds palatable.

I felt the video in the OP had more of interest to say about adversarial DMing, than anything robust on the matter of sport versus war. Although I suppose it did prompt a thread containing a lot of interesting and well-argued viewpoints!

 

[payn]

Were D&D combat as war, a common activity for characters would be massacring civilians and subjecting them to exemplary violence, to negate the ability of their polities to sustain resistance, and force them to surrender themselves and their resources. I think one could make an argument relating to the typical humanoid subjects of character violence that casts them as just such civilians. The point I would make - emphatically - is that war is not the application of strategy to prevail at the tactical layer. War is coersion by the least costly and most convenient means available.

Murderhobos?

 

[overgeeked]

Murderhobos?

Yeah. Literally any and every dungeon crawl. There are non-combatants in those rooms. Most players barely bat and eye when they fully clear the room. Every room.

 

[gorice]

Yeah. Literally any and every dungeon crawl. There are non-combatants in those rooms. Most players barely bat and eye when they fully clear the room. Every room.

Yup. Also ties in with the oft-repeated theme of 'fantasy Vietnam' and Gygax's unfortunate comments about nits and lice.

Naturally, not everyone plays this way, or thinks about what such play might signify if they do.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah. Literally any and every dungeon crawl. There are non-combatants in those rooms. Most players barely bat and eye when they fully clear the room. Every room.

that is not my experience

 

[Vaalingrade]

No, because vibranium doesn't exist. We are simulating reality and not children's picture books.

Simulating 'reality' for our children's pretend game that's designed as an escape from reality.

Never forget.

 

[Aldarc]

Simulating 'reality' for our children's pretend game that's designed as an escape from reality.

Never forget.

Simulating reality is also why it's important to maintain the god wizard and peon fighter paradigm. Realism in fantasy games only applies to fighters.

Never forget.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Simulating reality is also why it's important to maintain the god wizard and peon fighter paradigm. Realism in fantasy games only applies to fighters.

Never forget.

I mean real people can't run as fast as real world records, or lift as much as world recordes... but magic can totally trump everything training can.

 

[Aldarc]

I mean real people can't run as fast as real world records, or lift as much as world recordes... but magic can totally trump everything training can.

You say all that, but magic doesn't exist, so fighters should be able to beat wizards. Checkmate.