Rules Aren't Important

[Jd Smith1]

The rules are the foundation of a campaign. They are also the difference between a RPG, and a GM telling a story to an audience.

 

[James Gasik]

Of course, I don't know about you, but I've seen the downside of tactical infinity many, many times over the years. Player decides they want to try something that doesn't have precise rules. The DM, on the spot and uncertain of setting an overpowered precedent, makes the risk much higher than the reward of the action.

Player either falls flat on their face, or gets very little benefit out of their creativity. Having been stung, they resolve to only perform actions they know what the risk/reward ratio is ahead of time. Which is usually, "I attack with my weapon".

 

[Yora]

The game is not important.

 

[dragoner]

So if a game has no rules or lore? What?

 

[RuinousPowers]

Exactly. And that's a problem. They have a limited list of rules-provided options for their characters to do as if RPGs were a boardgame or video game. RPGs are neither. RPGs have a thing commonly referred to as tactical infinity. The characters can try literally anything the player can think of. They're not limited to that artificial menu in their head or in the rules.

Sure they are. The limitation is, in your vernacular, the fiction.

 

[Reynard]

While I agree with @overgeeked in a philosophical sense, practically speaking I am disinterested in that sort of game. I don't necessarily like too many rules -- Savage Worlds is about my sweet spot -- but I feel a good sturdy set of rules enables play that results in fun. This is especially true when considering the positive (IMO) impact of randomness that comes from the interaction of rules and dice. If everything flows from the fiction, you lose that.

 

[J.Quondam]

Rules are a cudgel with which a GM beats players into submission.
The Fiction is also such a cudgel, and so is Lore, and so is the Most High Neutrality of the Dice.
ALL is a cudgel to beat one's Lessers into creative submission.
That is the sole Purpose of the Game, for that is what is Fun in Life.

 

[Teo Twawki]

"There's an ogre standing in the middle of the road up ahead."

I blast it with my particle acceleration rifle. Now let's run back to the Transmogrifier Box...
Wow! Not having any rules makes this game easier than explaining quantum physics simply!

This always brings me around to Robert Anton Wilson's approach towards everything.

 

[Reynard]

I blast it with my particle acceleration rifle. Now let's run back to the Transmogrifier Box...
Wow! Not having any rules makes this game easier than explaining quantum physics

This bit of hyperbole underscores an interesting question: is "proceed from the fiction" a rule?

 

[overgeeked]

Of course, I don't know about you, but I've seen the downside of tactical infinity many, many times over the years. Player decides they want to try something that doesn't have precise rules. The DM, on the spot and uncertain of setting an overpowered precedent, makes the risk much higher than the reward of the action.

Player either falls flat on their face, or gets very little benefit out of their creativity. Having been stung, they resolve to only perform actions they know what the risk/reward ratio is ahead of time. Which is usually, "I attack with my weapon".

Yes, I've seen referees make bad calls. Worrying about precedent is not something that should factor into it. Making a bad call now shouldn't mean making the same bad call forever. Be honest enough to admit you made a bad call and that it doesn't set precedent.

Sure they are. The limitation is, in your vernacular, the fiction.

The limitations placed on characters by the rules are a tiny subset of the limitations placed on characters by the fiction. That's a problem.

While I agree with @overgeeked in a philosophical sense, practically speaking I am disinterested in that sort of game. I don't necessarily like too many rules -- Savage Worlds is about my sweet spot -- but I feel a good sturdy set of rules enables play that results in fun. This is especially true when considering the positive (IMO) impact of randomness that comes from the interaction of rules and dice. If everything flows from the fiction, you lose that.

It's not binary. There's still uncertainty and there's still the opportunity to use dice to resolve uncertain things.