D&D General "It's not fun when..."

[EzekielRaiden]

Narratively? Sure; but not everyone cares equally about losses in the narrative,

Not everyone cares equally about death. Which was...sort of my point.

 

[Reynard]

When I ran the 5e version of The Sunless Citadel from Tales from the Yawning Portal, the 1st level cleric went down into the cleft first. I rolled Stealth for the giant rats hiding at the bottom. They beat the cleric's passive Perception, so they got advantage on their attack rolls. One of them got a natural 20. Boom. Insta-kill with the very first dice rolls of the campaign.

The player just looked at me, stunned, and said, "Now what?"

As I recall, I just ruled that the PC was down but not instantly dead, giving the other PCs a chance to kill the rats and save the cleric.

Out of curiosity, why? Was is because the player was new to the game and didn't realize that could happen? Was it because you didn't want to have to deal with introducing a new PC? What made you decide to not just roll with the results of the dice?

 

[overgeeked]

When I ran the 5e version of The Sunless Citadel from Tales from the Yawning Portal, the 1st level cleric went down into the cleft first. I rolled Stealth for the giant rats hiding at the bottom. They beat the cleric's passive Perception, so they got advantage on their attack rolls. One of them got a natural 20. Boom. Insta-kill with the very first dice rolls of the campaign.

The player just looked at me, stunned, and said, "Now what?"

As I recall, I just ruled that the PC was down but not instantly dead, giving the other PCs a chance to kill the rats and save the cleric.

One time we had just started 5E Dungeon of the Mad Mage. We get to like the first or second room and there’s a fight. When the monsters died intellect devourers popped out. First hit was against my PC. My character had INT 8. It went badly. One character down in less than five minutes of total play time. I just started that character. First session, first fight. So I laughed, tore the sheet in half, dug out a high INT back up character, and joined the group. Characters are disposable.

 

[Pedantic]

I've personally had more issues with intraparty conflicts (usually pretty small). I struggled to play a bard in one campaign because the paladin (devoted to a god of passion and exuberance) felt it was hugely out of character to acknowledge any "ends when attacked" CC effect.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well, one way to solve the DM shortage is to chase away players by telling them it's a game of the imagination where you can craft a hero you want to embody, then rug pull them and tell them it's disposable and they better laugh in joy when it gets taken away or they will be roundly chastised.

 

[MGibster]

If you remove death, its not a game, its just play acting a story in which the PC's cannot lose.

Most of my campaigns have a high rate of attrition, not 5th edition because characters are pretty darned hardy, but it's a rare campaign I have where a PC or two doesn't die. That said, I've run a few campaigns where death was off the table, and you can still run an interesting campaign. The trick is to make sure there are conequences other than death. When I read a Batman comic I know he's not going to die. But if he fails there are other consequences.

 

[Scribe]

Most of my campaigns have a high rate of attrition, not 5th edition because characters are pretty darned hardy, but it's a rare campaign I have where a PC or two doesn't die. That said, I've run a few campaigns where death was off the table, and you can still run an interesting campaign. The trick is to make sure there are conequences other than death. When I read a Batman comic I know he's not going to die. But if he fails there are other consequences.

Yes, but that's a story (Batman) not a game.

Yes, you can tell a story, and sure you can live with failure as a character, but if death isn't on the table, some other fail state needs to exist or you just...what? You walk up to the BBEG and try again?

What is gained, by removal of loss of the character, outside of the obvious "I keep my character."

 

[Xamnam]

Yes, but that's a story (Batman) not a game.

Yes, you can tell a story, and sure you can live with failure as a character, but if death isn't on the table, some other fail state needs to exist or you just...what? You walk up to the BBEG and try again?

Is anyone advocating for a complete lack of fail states?

What is gained, by removal of loss of the character, outside of the obvious "I keep my character."

The ability to incorporate extreme, dire failure into the narrative in a cohesive, contiguous way, like most narratives we engage with.

 

[overgeeked]

Is anyone advocating for a complete lack of fail states?

Most players.

The ability to incorporate failure into the narrative in a cohesive, contiguous way, like most narratives we engage with.

The vast majority of narratives we engage with are not beholden to random die rolls and player shenanigans.

 

[Scribe]

Is anyone advocating for a complete lack of fail states?

The ability to incorporate extreme, dire failure into the narrative in a cohesive, contiguous way, like most narratives we engage with.

I guess that's my issue. It's a game first.