The WotC OGL Release on DDB today was edited in real time!

[FormerLurker]

I'll be honest, this sounds more like you're using this situation to rant about some nebulous "online people" who ALWAYS do certain things, apparently.

More that a pet peeve is applying to this situation.

And yes, I do think if WotC actually made meaningful, concrete steps to correct their hostile actions towards the community, many people would in fact forgive them. I find it strange to say they would not, it almost feels like you want to just say that the community is irrationally angry and WotC is in fact right to treat them with disdain and dishonesty.

How is removing royalties, explicitly allowing cosplay and live streams, not taking ownership of content, allowing old OGL content to still be sold NOT "meaningful, concrete steps to correct their hostile actions"??
WotC pretty much gave the fans almost everything they asked for. But because it wasn't 100% of their demands it was the same as if they'd done nothing.
What would be acceptable? Reparations? Public humiliation?

Go through the thread here OGL - WotC Walks Back Some OGL Changes, But Not All and maybe the one on Reddit Then tell me how many people forgave WotC. Even partially.
How many people still seem just as angry as the day before. Or more angry as now they have the language in the statement to attack as well?

 

[ECMO3]

Have people EVER forgiven someone on the internet?
Look through the responses to the WotC blog and all the people saying it changes nothing or they've already shown their intentions or how we should judge them for their actions.
People don't forgive online. They stay angry until their ire is redirected to someone else and fades towards the former target.

Yes to start with in the early 2000s WOTC was forgiven for the 90s and then forgiven again for 4E.

The first exampel is probably the most similar to this situation and I will add what cased it was OGL 1.0a and the very aggressive move by WOTC to both open the game and convince creators that they were not lying. That sort of approach would work here, but it needs to be agressive and open and they need to tell the very comeptitors they were targeting that they have reversed course and they actually now want to "subsidize competitors". I think they need to use language like that as it is the language they used in the draft 1.1 and was used to try to prop up their argument.

Signing on to the PAIZO OGL (or whatever it is called) and putting the 3E SRD, 5E SRD and ONE playtest stuff there would do that I think.

 

[ECMO3]

WotC pretty much gave the fans almost everything they asked for. But because it wasn't 100% of their demands it was the same as if they'd done nothing.
What would be acceptable? Reparations? Public humiliation?

Yes actually. Instead of "almost everything they asked for" give fans "more than everything they asked for"

Absolutely it will be humiliating for the knuckleheads that though OGL 1.1 was a good idea.

Here are a couple ideas -

1. let 3PP publish and sell content on DND Beyond for free, with no formal agreement with WOTC and pay for programmers to integrate that material into the engine.

2. Stop taking a cut of DMSGuild products or alternatively stop taking a cut for a time.

3. Move the entire PHB (their best selling product) into the SRD and release it for free on DNDB similar to what they did with LMOP.

I don't think those things will happen, but they could happen and they would be good faith initiatives that would cost WOTC money in the short term and show they are serious.

WOTC made a bad business decision with the OGL 1.1 draft. They can and in a free-market economy should be punished financially for that poor decision.

 

[Branduil]

More that a pet peeve is applying to this situation.


How is removing royalties, explicitly allowing cosplay and live streams, not taking ownership of content, allowing old OGL content to still be sold NOT "meaningful, concrete steps to correct their hostile actions"??
WotC pretty much gave the fans almost everything they asked for. But because it wasn't 100% of their demands it was the same as if they'd done nothing.
What would be acceptable? Reparations? Public humiliation?

Go through the thread here OGL - WotC Walks Back Some OGL Changes, But Not All and maybe the one on Reddit Then tell me how many people forgave WotC. Even partially.
How many people still seem just as angry as the day before. Or more angry as now they have the language in the statement to attack as well?

I think this is a misunderstanding of the situation. This is not a "negotiation," the community and 3PPs were wronged by WotC. Even putting aside whether it's really true they gave fans "almost everything," imagine a person went into a public park, and chopped down all the trees that had been there for a generation. They disappear for a week and then replant a few trees during the night. When morning comes and they're confronted they ask "Geez why are you guys still mad, I replanted most of the trees."

Since this is a community issue everyone is going to have their own line for what is an acceptable response from WotC. But I need to emphasize that no one owes WotC forgiveness. If people choose to never give WotC their business again that is their own decision.

 

[Maxperson]

WotC pretty much gave the fans almost everything they asked for. But because it wasn't 100% of their demands it was the same as if they'd done nothing.
What would be acceptable? Reparations? Public humiliation?

They didn't give almost everything. I mean, I suppose if you're looking only at the number of things asked for and not how important an individual demand was, you could say that. However, they still plan on shutting down OGL 1.0a, which is gigantic and means that WotC didn't even come close to giving what people were asking for. They need to keep that around.

 

[Reynard]

I am as done with WotC as anyone, but I don't think this is an especially big deal. If anything, the failure is to not indicate on the page that it has been "updated." News articles, bloggers and pretty much everyone else do it all the time. Hell, I'll probably edit this comment seconds after I hit reply because I see wording I would like to change.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I am as done with WotC as anyone, but I don't think this is an especially big deal. If anything, the failure is to not indicate on the page that it has been "updated." News articles, bloggers and pretty much everyone else do it all the time. Hell, I'll probably edit this comment seconds after I hit reply because I see wording I would like to change.

I'm not sure anyone thinks it's a big deal.

I do the same constantly.

However is, to me least, HILARIOUS, because they took what, a week or more to come up with this, and even they were making edits after they posted! If nothing else it indicates either amazing carelessness, or some real Dad's Army "DON'T PANIC!"-type stuff.


And the edits they made are particularly funny.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not sure anyone thinks it's a big deal.

I do the same constantly.

However is, to me least, HILARIOUS, because they took what, a week or more to come up with this, and even they were making edits after they posted! If nothing else it indicates either amazing carelessness, or some real Dad's Army "DON'T PANIC!"-type stuff.


And the edits they made are particularly funny.

To be fair, it took a week to post it. They probably came up with it over scotch a half hour before they posted it.

 

[Haplo781]

Do you really think for a SECOND that had the blog instead said something to the effect of "we've heard the community and are doubling down on the protection for the OGL with the 1.0b, which is the same as the 1.0a but adds a clause making it extra double irrevocable!" that any of the people mad at WotC would calm down and forgive them?

Have people EVER forgiven someone on the internet?
Look through the responses to the WotC blog and all the people saying it changes nothing or they've already shown their intentions or how we should judge them for their actions.
People don't forgive online. They stay angry until their ire is redirected to someone else and fades towards the former target.

People got over the initial hate for Battlefront 2 after EA fixed it.

 

[Xamnam]

I am as done with WotC as anyone, but I don't think this is an especially big deal. If anything, the failure is to not indicate on the page that it has been "updated." News articles, bloggers and pretty much everyone else do it all the time. Hell, I'll probably edit this comment seconds after I hit reply because I see wording I would like to change.

Probably a good 50% of my posts here go through this.