D&D 5E So this is how D&D 5e dies, a beautiful start only to die in disgrace because of mismanagement. RIP 5e

[Henadic Theologian]

If there is some reason WotC should worry is players started to would rather 3PPs because paying the sime prize they get sourcebooks with more crunch and/or lore.

Goodness forbid WotC improve the quality of it's products to the level of 3pp with a fraction of the market and budget the 3pp do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Funny! But the doomcasting is kind of getting out of control.

D&D has survived, inter alia, the ousted of its founder (Gygax). The (mis)management of the Blume family. Multiple financial deaths (1985, 1997). The Satanic Panic. Repeated questionable management decisions. Alienating large parts of their fan base due to litigation and C&D letters in the 80s. Alienating the hobbyist community in the 70s and 80s with their attempt to wall off D&D from the rest of the community. The various edition wars and schisms, including, but not limited to, the 3e/4e debacle (WHICH PEOPLE STILL FIGHT TODAY ... including, in a roundabout way, in threads about OGLs).

I could keep going, but I completely agree with you. Yeah, this is definitely worthy of concern and coverage, but the sheer amount of "OMG THIS IS THE WORSTEST THING 4EVA AND D&D IS DEAD NOW HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA" is .... well, we'll see, right?

I mean, aren't you missing out the bit where they literally were months from death in the 1990s, and only survived because WotC bought them? That seems relevant lol.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I mean, aren't you missing out the bit where they literally were months from death in the 1990s, and only survived because WotC bought them? That seems relevant lol.

Am I?

Multiple financial deaths (1985, 1997).

I appreciate you reiterating my point.! D&D has seen a lot worse. The doomcasting (and I would add that most of the vocal cheerleaders on this forum are the same ones that had already given up on 5e prior to this) is a little bit too much.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Am I?

Multiple financial deaths (1985, 1997).

I appreciate you reiterating my point.! D&D has seen a lot worse. The doomcasting (and I would add that most of the vocal cheerleaders on this forum are the same ones that had already given up on 5e prior to this) is a little bit too much.

Well to be fair 5E is gonna die.

100%. No arguing. In less than 2 years! Because WotC themselves have said it will be killed and replaced by 1D&D. So it's not like the thread premise is fundamentally wrong? 5E is going to die in disgrace but the OGL debacle will have disgraced it, and 1D&D will kill it. The upcoming books of 2024 are definitely not going to be enough to regain it's honor unless they've liked, tracked Zeb Cook and DeTerlizzi and locked them in a basement to create the new Planescape or something.

(You may detect I am being somewhat facetious)

The real question is whether D&D dies, I guess, and I think there's no chance the OGL does that by itself. I think there is a reasonable chance the 3D VTT kills D&D in a very real sense though.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The real question is whether D&D dies, I guess, and I think there's no chance the OGL does that by itself. I think there is a reasonable chance the 3D VTT kills D&D in a very real sense though.

That's an interesting question, and, IMO, much more interesting than the OGL (which I am already bored by, tbh).

I know that there are people- like me- that don't play D&D with VTT. But I also think that I'm in the minority? But only maybe ... the high school kids that I know that play don't use VTT either- it's all in person and pencil & paper.

I know that if they continue to move D&D into a VTT-required direction, I'm going back to running B/X and 1e exclusively when it comes to "D&D."

 

[Jd Smith1]

I'm not going to gloat and say, "I told you so," largely because it's not like I saw this coming. But maybe when someone says they're going to adopt a strategy that has been shown to be anti-consumer, maybe take it a little more seriously next time.

Is it really anti-consumer?

It is bad news for small publishers who chose to do derivative work, but I don't really see how the consumer is harmed. D&D will still be available, if you like that sort of thing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, drastically reducing consumer choice and stealing fan content is pretty anti-consumer.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

But the doomcasting is kind of getting out of control.

Ahem. I own shares in several popcorn concerns and this sort of reasoned discourse could harm their prices.

 

[Oofta]

That’s wild to me that “something like 4e” is a harder limit to you than the OGL. Like, ok, you don’t like 4e, fine, lots of people don’t. But making a game you don’t like very much is a bigger deal to you than killing many small publisher’s livelihoods? The OGL was what made the alternative to 4e possible. I would think if nothing else you would at least want the OGL around in case they took the game in a similar direction again.

I get that people are concerned and I'm not trying to minimize their concern. I simply don't understand why people assume the death of all 3PP publishers, especially now that they're getting rid of royalties*.

Why do people assume the bolded? WOTC is not TSR, they aren't cranking out one setting after another. Modules, and setting books, simply don't make a lot of money so it's in WOTC's best interest to let others that can make a profit go after those niches. It would be stupid of WOTC to dilute it's core official products too much. Just because they could be that stupid doesn't mean they will be.

I think the 1.1 version was a huge mistake in presentation if not intent. I'm simply taking a wait-and-see attitude on the 2.0 version that we have yet to see.

*I personally have mixed thoughts on royalties, if nothing else if implemented it should have been based on net revenue not gross but that's a moot point now.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Ahem. I own shares in several popcorn concerns and this sort of reasoned discourse could harm their prices.

It's great for a few days! But then ...