D&D (2024) New leak looks real bad

[Faolyn]

Yes, that wasn't hard to understand. You stated it clearly.

What I am saying is "worth" is up to the consumer. It's subjective. What's worth $30 to me and what's $30 to you will be different. And that's okay. "Worth" is not objective.

So arguments about "worth" are pointless until we see what is being offered and we have to make individual decisions about whether or not to buy it. If it succeeds, then we'll know the pricing was more or less correct. If it fails, we'll know it wasn't.

It is not hard for me to imagine WotC offering something a product worth me paying $30/month. And it is also not hard for me to imagine them offering a product that I pass on.

But that's the point that I'm making.

Imagine that, one month, they produce something really cool. That's awesome, it's money well spent. I can totally see that. But next month, they produce something that you have zero interest in, actively dislike, or that you wanted to like but is just so poorly done as to be worthless. Well, it's a subscription model so you have to pay the $30 even though you're getting nothing of value. You won't have the option of picking and choosing what you want to buy or waiting until you've read the reviews before you decide. You don't get to pass on the product. You're stuck with it.

And, again, $30 may be pocket change for you, but for a lot of other people, it's a big decision.

For all we know, they may try to make this content into "pay-to-win" loot boxes. They may start producing adventures that effectively require material from them in order to proceed. Wild Beyond The Witchlight referenced another book, Domains of Delight. DoD was optional, simply including material if you wanted to create your own Domain of Delight. But I would not be even slightly surprised if they took this path even further. You want the info on this monster or event or magic item? It won't be in the dead-tree version of the book, it'll be dropped in the digital bundle they're putting out that month, along with a cool interactive map that'll make your VTT really pop! Sucks to be a gamer who plays in person around an actual table using physical books.

Do I know this will happen? No, I'm speculating. But it seems like a strong possibility to me.

 

[ECMO3]

$30/year is absurd for a video game, however.

Unless I am misreading it is $360 a year ($30 a month)

 

[Faolyn]

First, as others have said, social media personalities, including YouTubers, get their money from views. They're incentivized to stir up negative feelings and prolong controversy as that directs people to their videos. They're going to continue to foster negative opinions towards WotC because that gets them views and ad revenue.

Second... this sounds horrible... until you stop to break it down.
It feels pricey. Netflix's premium is $19.99 per month. World of Warcraft has always been $14.99 per month, but with inflation that should be $23.22 per month. Roll20 varies from $4.17 per month to $8.33 per month. $30 is more than those... but we also don't know what the tiers include. We're just assuming it's comparable to the current tiers. We're assuming with no evidence that WotC is just going to increase prices of the baseline by 600% with no additional content or features. That's unlikely.

Monthly content drops sounds a lot like the old magazines. So, really, this is just a return to DDI adjusted for inflation. Possibly also with a VTT. So it would be $30 for extra rules content AND a VTT AND the other perks of the current subscription. Which very much might still exist in their current form but without monthly PDFs and other perks.

If I canceled my subscription to Dragon, it wouldn't prevent me from playing my game though or cause my books to go away.

If you cancel your subscription to DDB, you lose access to any material you have there, your play space, and your source material.

 

[Clint_L]

It seems like you are trying to convince people that X offer isn't worth Y dollars because reasons. How is that anyone else's business, though? People can decide for themselves what things are worth. You won't believe what some folks will pay for a Magic card!

Edit: it's not that your points aren't valid. They totally are! For you! But maybe other folks have different values. Almost all my reading is on my Kindle. If I lose it and quit my Amazon account or something, all those books would be gone for ever. That's a risk I am willing to take in exchange for all the money and storage I am saving, and the convenience of the device. It's the same reason I got rid of all my CDs and DVDs. For that matter, most of my D&D books only exist on DnDBeyond. I am quite content with that.

 

[darjr]

Has WotC hired any AI folks? Even OPs folks? Do we know?

 

[Haplo781]

First, as others have said, social media personalities, including YouTubers, get their money from views. They're incentivized to stir up negative feelings and prolong controversy as that directs people to their videos. They're going to continue to foster negative opinions towards WotC because that gets them views and ad revenue.

Second... this sounds horrible... until you stop to break it down.
It feels pricey. Netflix's premium is $19.99 per month. World of Warcraft has always been $14.99 per month, but with inflation that should be $23.22 per month. Roll20 varies from $4.17 per month to $8.33 per month. $30 is more than those... but we also don't know what the tiers include. We're just assuming it's comparable to the current tiers. We're assuming with no evidence that WotC is just going to increase prices of the baseline by 600% with no additional content or features. That's unlikely.

Monthly content drops sounds a lot like the old magazines. So, really, this is just a return to DDI adjusted for inflation. Possibly also with a VTT. So it would be $30 for extra rules content AND a VTT AND the other perks of the current subscription. Which very much might still exist in their current form but without monthly PDFs and other perks.

You're leaving out an important bullet point there.

 

[FormerLurker]

You're leaving out an important bullet point there.

Thanks...?

If I canceled my subscription to Dragon, it wouldn't prevent me from playing my game though or cause my books to go away.

And if you have physical books and cancel, they don't go away here either. This is more like D&D Insider: if you don't download when your sub expires the content goes away.

Similarly, if you cancel Roll20, you lose the files you have stored there. Ditto Dropbox or Google Drive. And if you cancel Netflix you don't get to rewatch any shows.

If you cancel your subscription to DDB, you lose access to any material you have there, your play space, and your source material.

Then don't cancel if you play online? If you're using a service, don't cancel. This seems like a low bar.

The books won't go away. Online play won't be mandatory. You won't have to pay monthly if you don't want to.

 

[Faolyn]

Then don't cancel if you play online? If you're using a service, don't cancel. This seems like a low bar.

The books won't go away. Online play won't be mandatory. You won't have to pay monthly if you don't want to.

That we know of.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Didn't they previously announce that going forward, when you buy a book you are getting a physical and digital copy? Or am I misremembering?

I'm pretty sure that WAS mentioned somewhere in the hype for OneD&D, but I don't think we can bank on it. It was promised for 4e and 5e too, and never happened.

 

[Jer]

The books won't go away.

A month ago we didn't think Wizards would be dumb enough to try to revoke the OGL.

So they might actually be dumb enough to move to online only books that they can disappear when they feel like it. A month ago I would have called that kind of thinking dumb as heck, but revoking the OGL is even dumber than that so why not?