Pathfinder 2E PF2E Gurus teach me! +

[Staffan]

Is this legal?

My Wizard trains the Nature skill, relating to Primal magic.

The Pathbuilder "lets" my Wizard choose Heal as a spellbook Primal spell.

(It helps the character concept − expressing good fate, sunlight, and magic.)

No, unless there are other shenanigans going on wizards only cast Arcane spells.

Your character concept sounds like it could benefit from the Magaambiyan Attendant and later Halcyon Speaker archetypes, or a version of them attuned to your setting. In Golarion, the Magaambiya is one of the pre-eminent magic schools, with a focus on both arcane and primal magic.

 

[Staffan]

Old school vancian? Uggh.

Oh well, I have 1e friends who will be happy.

At least there are other nonvancian classes to choose from?

PF2 is similar to 3e in this regard. Clerics, druids, and wizards are old-school Vancian (albeit with unlimited cantrips), and bards and sorcerers are spontaneous casters with a small repertoire that they can cast in a more flexible fashion.

But are these nonvancian classes as appealing as the Wizard is, in terms of versatility, effective spells, and game support − or is the Wizard "privileged" like it is in 3e?

The core rules have two spontaneous casters. The bard uses the Occult spell list, which is fairly versatile but light on physical damage. The sorcerer can use any of the four spell lists, depending on their bloodline – draconic sorcerers use arcane magic, fey or elemental ones use primal magic, angelic or demonic ones divine, and aberrant ones occult. In addition, they gain one spell per spell level "for free", sometimes poaching them from other spell lists (e.g. fey sorcerers get some mind-affecting stuff, which is otherwise not primal magic's forte).

Spontaneous casters are more flexible at the cost of long-term versatility. They are strong offensively (because they can cast the same spell repeatedly), but won't have many niche spells. That said, my primal sorcerer has gotten a lot of mileage out of some utility spells like speak with animals and wall of stone.

What is an "archetype"? Is it something like a multiclassed class or a prestige class?

An archetype is akin to a multi- or prestige class.

The way they work mechanically is that each archetype has a Dedication feat, e.g. Pirate Dedication, Magaambiyan Attendant Dedication, or Wizard dedication. This is always a class feat, so if your wizard wants to be a Magaambiyan Attendant they take the Magaambiyan Attendant Dedication feat instead of a Wizard feat. They still gain the regular class progression (proficiencies, spellcasting, etc.), but instead of learning a special wizard trick, they learn the dedication feat.

Each archetype also has a number of other feats that delve deeper into the archetype. These are often, but not always, also class feats (some are skill feats). Generally, you can't take a second dedication feat unless you've taken at least three feats in your first archetype, but some archetypes build on one another and bypass that rule (e.g. Halcyon Speaker builds on Magaambiyan Attendant, so you don't need to "finish" the Attendant archetype before taking the Speaker dedication).

The core book only has the multi-class archetypes. The Advanced Player's Guide has a lot of "general" archetypes (e.g. Pirate, Medic, Acrobat), while more flavorful and setting-based ones show up in other books – particularly in the Lost Omens line.

 

[payn]

Multiclassing in PF2 is the 4E model.

 

[billd91]

Multiclassing in PF2 is the 4E model.

Largely, though I do think the PF2 version has a little more going for it than the 4e version.

 

[payn]

Largely, though I do think the PF2 version has a little more going for it than the 4e version.

Its true, PF2 is the version of 4E I would have made.

 

[Staffan]

IIRC, 4e's multiclassing feats let you swap out one of your encounter/daily powers for an at-will/encounter power of the other class, but downgraded to encounter/daily. PF2's multiclassing is more specific regarding the specific abilities it allows, and instead of reducing use of the multiclass ability it usually shifts them to higher levels.
So it's sort of like 4e, but not quite.

 

[Thomas Shey]

What is an "archetype"? Is it something like a multiclassed class or a prestige class?

See post #54; I unpack it in some detail there.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Does one give up a class level to take a level in an archetype?

Not class levels, but you use up slots for class feats, which are essentially, selectable class features.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In addition, Archetypes can be of other core classes or they can be more narrowly thematic (e.g. monk archetype vs. dragon disciple archetypes).

Archetypes typically have a dedication feat and then a series of downstream feats, if a player wants to invest more in that archetype along the way.

For multiclass Archetypes (i.e. the core classes), the best tools are usually either unavailable to the archetype, or only available at significantly higher levels. For example, a monk's flurry of blows is something a monk gets at character creation. If someone wanted to go monk archetype, they'd have to meet the attribute prereqs, select the dedication feat using a class feat slot, and then wait until character level 10, before they could use another class feat to select the flurry of blows archetype feat.

The result is that you don't really see anything like the 5e hexblade dip. In many cases, multiclassing on PF2e winds up being an increase in breadth of options at the cost of potency of options.

As an example, spellcasting dedications are about one spell level down from their full-blown counterparts. Because of how PF2e works, that's still useful but a Fighter with a Sorcerer Dedication is not as good a spellcaster as a full blown Sorcerer (and if you want to do a fighter-mage type, you're probably better off doing it the other way around--a Sorcerer with a Fighter Dedication).

Either way, there's a nontrivial cost to taking Archetypes (though some people feel the Wizard Class Feats are underwhelming enough that its not that painful there).

 

[Thomas Shey]

The core book only has the multi-class archetypes. The Advanced Player's Guide has a lot of "general" archetypes (e.g. Pirate, Medic, Acrobat), while more flavorful and setting-based ones show up in other books – particularly in the Lost Omens line.

The specialty books involving new classes also tend to have some Archetypes that are adjacent to the new classes they have--for example Guns and Gears besides the Gunslinger and Artificer classes and their Dedications, has a number of Archetypes primarily of use to those classes.