Level Up (A5E) We need more CR 4 Beasts (and Plants)

[xiphumor]

This is a niche problem, but an important one in its niche: there is only one* CR 4 beast in A5e: the elephant. There are no CR 4 plants.

This means that every druid who reaches 16th level (or Skinchanger druid who reaches 12th level) has to take the same wild shape if they want the strongest option available to them, regardless of how well it fits their character concept.

Now, real-life beasts in A5e tend toward lower CR levels, which helps the real monsters feel dangerous. Much of the 1-3 CR tier is therefore filled with "Giant" or "Dire" variants of existing monsters, but for whatever reason, these don't breach CR 4. Therefore, for the sake of narrative consistency, we need a new kind of tag to stick on to beasts to help fill this upper range.

While it's tempting to just make things bigger, this does eventually reach a point where things become less useful in combat in small spaces. At the same time, it seems like it would be best to avoid making things so crazy that they start to clearly belong in the Monstrosities bucket (which is a fairly arbitrary bucket, admittedly).

I'd love to get some community thoughts on the matter.

*(Okay, there's two if you count Babe the Blue Ox if you count Mythological Figures and Maleficent Monsters.)

 

[VenerableBede]

I personally don’t mind more “dire” variants being added, even if higher levels, despite precedent. Also, maybe more dinosaurs—some dinos definitely deserve higher CRs, and there are a ton unrepresented.
Are cave bears already in the MM? If not, maybe cave/ancient versions of some beasts. Pretend everything was tougher WAY back in the day, before all of these magical monsters started popping up.
Finally, the Bunyip is represented as a Beast, not a Monstrosity. Perhaps a few more mythical creatures/cryptids would feel right at home as strong Beasts. Sasquatch/Bigfoot, mothman, Nessie… Could be fun.

 

[VenerableBede]

Jersey devil. Drop bear. Jackalope (except I think that’s already in there).

 

[scaramouche]

I think there might be an interesting design space for 'Regal' or 'Majestic' or 'Legendary' beasts. Think Shadowfax from LotR. They wouldn't need to be swole (and boy does D&D and, in particular, Pathfinder, love to make stuff really big), but would nicely fit into that growth curve for beasts.

 

[xiphumor]

I think there might be an interesting design space for 'Regal' or 'Majestic' or 'Legendary' beasts. Think Shadowfax from LotR. They wouldn't need to be swole (and boy does D&D and, in particular, Pathfinder, love to make stuff really big), but would nicely fit into that growth curve for beasts.

THAT! The Regal/Majestic tag! That’s the kind of adjective I was looking for! Something that indicates prestige without always increasing size.

 

[xiphumor]

Jersey devil. Drop bear. Jackalope (except I think that’s already in there).

All three of them are already in there, actually!

 

[Morrus]

I think there might be an interesting design space for 'Regal' or 'Majestic' or 'Legendary' beasts. Think Shadowfax from LotR. They wouldn't need to be swole (and boy does D&D and, in particular, Pathfinder, love to make stuff really big), but would nicely fit into that growth curve for beasts.

We have Elite monsters.

 

[dave2008]

This is a niche problem, but an important one in its niche: there is only one* CR 4 beast in A5e: the elephant. There are no CR 4 plants.

This means that every druid who reaches 16th level (or Skinchanger druid who reaches 12th level) has to take the same wild shape if they want the strongest option available to them, regardless of how well it fits their character concept.

Now, real-life beasts in A5e tend toward lower CR levels, which helps the real monsters feel dangerous. Much of the 1-3 CR tier is therefore filled with "Giant" or "Dire" variants of existing monsters, but for whatever reason, these don't breach CR 4. Therefore, for the sake of narrative consistency, we need a new kind of tag to stick on to beasts to help fill this upper range.

While it's tempting to just make things bigger, this does eventually reach a point where things become less useful in combat in small spaces. At the same time, it seems like it would be best to avoid making things so crazy that they start to clearly belong in the Monstrosities bucket (which is a fairly arbitrary bucket, admittedly).

I'd love to get some community thoughts on the matter.

*(Okay, there's two if you count Babe the Blue Ox if you count Mythological Figures and Maleficent Monsters.)

Here some beast I made a while back. They all have the bloodied condition so the A5e ready, but I haven't added Maneuver DCs to all of them yet. Also, none are CR 4, but they dance around that threat level:

• Amur Tiger (standard, CR 3)
• Cheetah (standard, CR 1/4)
• Cougar (standard, CR 1/2)
• Crocodile (standard, CR 1)
• Dire Mammoth (standard, CR 10)
• Giant Crocodile (standard, CR 6)
• Giant Fox (standard, CR 1/2)
• Giant Shark (standard, CR 6)
• Gorilla (standard, CR 2)
• Lion (standard, CR 1)
• Lion, Alpha (standard, CR 3)
• Megalodon (standard, CR 12)
• Tiger (standard, CR 2)
• Timber Wolf (standard CR 1/2)
• Tyrannosaurus (standard, CR 10)
• Tyrannosaurus Alpha (Elite standard, CR 10)
• War Elephant (standard, CR 6)

 

[Faolyn]

Wish I could help, but I just went back and checked my bestiary. The only CR 4 beast or plant I have is a swarm.

 

[dave2008]

Here is a CR 5 plant: Battlebriar (standard, CR 5)