Kyle Brink (D&D Exec Producer) On OGL Controversy & One D&D (Summary)

The YouTube channel 3 Black Halflings spoke to WotC's Kyle Brink (executive producer, D&D) about the recent Open Game License events, amongst other things. It's an hour-plus long interview (which you can watch below) but here are some of the highlights of what Brink said. Note these are my paraphrases, so I encourage you to listen to the actual interview for full context if you have time.

OGL v1.1 Events

• There was a concern that the OGL allowed Facebook to make a D&D Metaverse without WotC involvement.
• Re. the OGL decisions, WotC had gotten themselves into a 'terrible place' and are grateful for the feedback that allowed them to see that.
• The royalties in OGL v1.1 were there as a giant deterrent to mega corporations.
• Kyle Brink is not familiar with what happened in the private meetings with certain publishers in December, although was aware that meetings were taking place.
• When the OGL v1.1 document became public, WotC had already abandoned much of it.
• The response from WotC coinciding with D&D Beyond subscription cancellations was a coincidence as it takes longer than that to modify a legal document.
• The atmosphere in WotC during the delay before making an announcement after the OGL v1.1 went public was 'bad' -- fear of making it worse if they said anything. The feeling was that they should not talk, just deliver the new version.
• Brink does not know who wrote the unpopular 'you won but we won too' announcement and saw it the same time we did. He was not happy with it.
• 'Draft' contracts can have dates and boxes for signatures. Despite the leaked version going to some publishers, it was not final or published.
• There were dissenting voices within WotC regarding the OGL v1.1, but once the company had agreed how to proceed, everybody did the best they could to deliver.
• The dissenting voices were not given enough weight to effect change. Brinks' team is now involved in the process and can influence decisions.
• The SRD release into Creative Commmons is a one-way door; there can be no takeback.

One D&D

• The intention is that all of the new [One D&D] updates they are doing, "the SRD will be updated to remain compatible with all of that". This might be with updted rules or with bridging language like 'change the word race to species'.
• Anything built with the current SRD will be 100% compatible with the new rules.
• Brink does not think there is a plan to, and does not see the value, in creating a new OGL just for One D&D. When/if they put more stuff into the public space, they'd do it through Creative Commons.
• WotC doesn't think of One D&D as a new edition. He feels it's more like what happened with 3.5. They think 5E is great, but coud be better and play faster and easier with more room for roleplay, so there is stuff they can do to improve it but not replace it.

Inclusivity

• WotC is leaning on the community to discourage bad actors and hateful content, rather than counting on a legal document.
• They are working on an adaptable content policy describing what they consider to be hateful content which will apply to WotC's work (no legal structure to apply it to anybody else).
• They now have external inclusivity reviewers (as of last fall) who look over every word and report back. They are putting old content through the same process before reprints.
• Previously cultural consultances were used for spot reviews on things they thought might be problematic, but not everything (e.g. Hadozee).
• The problematic Hadozee content was written by a trusted senior person at WotC, and very few people saw it before publication.
• 'DnDShorts' video on the internal workings and management culture of WotC is not something Brinks can talk on, but it is not reflective of his team. Each team has its own culture.
• In the last couple of years the D&D team hiring process has made the team more inclusive.
• When asked about non white-CIS-men in leadership positions at WotC, Brinks referred to some designers and authors. He said 'guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt' and 'I'm not the face of the hobby any more'. It is important that the creators at WotC look like the players. 'Guys like me can't leave soon enough'.

Virtual Tabletops (VTTs)/Digital Gaming

• Goal is to make more ways to play ('and' not 'instead') including a cool looking 3D space.
• Digital gaming is not meant to replace books etc., but to be additive.
• The strategy is to give players a choice, and WotC will go where the player interests lie.

​

 

[Cadence]

“a really good fit”, “shares our values,” “enthusiastic,” “very positive,” “up-and-coming,” “strong reputation,” “well-connected,” “strongly endorsed,” “personable,”….

Is it bad that I read several of those with the " being air-quotes?

 

[Scribe]

I think you might be surprised. But that is not even how it works, say white males are 38% of the market, and the other groups share smaller segments but still don't individually pass 38%. Why in the world would you want to lose market share is your biggest target group?
Again this is not an anti diversity take, it's a "who will buy our products while we expand our market share" take. Also there is RoI on all of this, if we invest X to get X share do these margins work for our business?

Right, not 50%, but 'the largest part of the pie' or whatever. At this point for me it is simply academic. I know what I see in their products, I know what I feel when I look them over, and I see their statements.

I cannot read minds, but I can connect the dots, shrug, and realize that I'm simply not what they are spending time and money on and thats OK.

 

[Imaro]

Imaro, this is not the place to talk about that. Don't want to slip in the slope of moderation. I'm not glossing, I'm arguing that lack of contextualization generates monsters. End conversation.

That wasn't what you said and if you didn't want it to go there then why make the comparison?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think you might be surprised. But that is not even how it works, say white males are 38% of the market, and the other groups share smaller segments but still don't individually pass 38%. Why in the world would you want to lose market share is your biggest target group?
Again this is not an anti diversity take, it's a "who will buy our products while we expand our market share" take. Also there is RoI on all of this, if we invest X to get X share do these margins work for our business?

Because of that 38%, how many are supportive of diversity? Probably a lot higher than you think, especially in the group that helps build the hobby (new younger players).

 

[Scribe]

His generation seems much more accepting of diversity and inclusivity than my generation.

It has nothing to do with diversity and inclusivity.

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

Yeah, we are a dying (no pun intended) market. Why would they focus on us? Looking at my son who plays, he's also a white male, but his generation seems much less...worried? Fearful? Knee-jerky? about them no longer being the primary demographic being marketed to. His generation seems much more accepting of diversity and inclusivity than my generation. He and his other cis white friends don't feel threatened by marketing towards other demographics. I have to think WoTC knows this, and they are the generation to grow the hobby, not us.

Same for my kids. I can support your experience.

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

It has nothing to do with diversity and inclusivity.

Can you elaborate on that?

 

[AstroCat]

Yeah, we are a dying (no pun intended) market. Why would they focus on us? Looking at my son who plays, he's also a white male, but his generation seems much less...worried? Fearful? Knee-jerky? about them no longer being the primary demographic being marketed to. His generation seems much more accepting of diversity and inclusivity than my generation. He and his other cis white friends don't feel threatened by marketing towards other demographics. I have to think WoTC knows this, and they are the generation to grow the hobby, not us.

The older "white dudes" that mostly carried the hobby for the last 40+ years are for sure not the future market, but they are still part of it. The younger and that is very wide take, like 40 years of it varying a lot overall is still white males of all ages that spend the money.

Now look, my family is mixed ethnicity and my son is not a "white male", he is totally the just getting going growth generation that wotc says they want to get but he is still not representative of the vast majority of "new potential players". And again to be clear hell yes I want him to be able to see himself represented in the art and stories of games he plays. So yes the some rationally proportionate "diversifying" of the art and characters is cool with me. I just see they way wotc is going about it is often more harmful and ham handed than positive and often straight up vindictive, spiteful, mean spirited and disingenuous.

I want everyone to be welcome and represented, not one group at the expense of another. And it's interesting my son is actually under represented in D&D right now, so it gets really messy when someone had to divvy up the representation priority list.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The older "white dudes" that mostly carried the hobby for the last 40+ years are for sure not the future market, but they are still part of it. The younger and that is very wide take, like 40 years of it varying a lot overall is still white males of all ages that spend the money.

You mean the same group that keeps saying, "I still have all my gaming material, I don't need to buy anything from them!"

Now look, my family is mixed ethnicity and my son is not a "white male", he is totally the just getting going growth generation that wotc says they want to get but he is still not representative of the vast majority of "new potential players". And again to be clear hell yes I want him to be able to see himself represented in the art and stories of games he plays. So yes the "diversifying" of the art and characters is cool with me. I just believe they way wotc is going about it often more harmful and ham handed than positive and often straight up spiteful, mean spirited and disingenuous.

My oldest is mixed race, but he's never had an interest in gaming. Honestly, I think our society as a whole is becoming more...mixed together so to speak, so it's no wonder why the younger generation is more accepting--it's their normal. Between social media and more diverse family/friend groups, people aren't nearly as siloed as we were in the 70s. Still exists, of course, but our society in general is becoming more diverse.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I don’t think it’s a concern of WOTC or ours now. The OGL isn’t going anywhere or an ongoing concern any more or really ever since they released their ongoing concern to CC-BY.

FYI, in the new interview Kyle said they looking to release the 3.5 SRD to CC. But they need to review it first and make sure there are no IP, Trademark, copyright issues as they haven’t look at it in a long time.