D&D (2024) Less (and different) spellcasting?

[Bill Zebub]

Combining ideas from several different threads, I'm imagining a world (that will never occur, at least not under WotC's watch) in which:

• Rangers don't have normal spell slots. Instead they have something like Warlock Invocations, in which they get to pick and choose their favorite toys, some of which may involve spells.
• Paladins don't have spells at all. Instead they are designed like Battlemasters or Sorcerers, in which they have a resource they can spend on Smites. They get to pick from a list of Smites, getting more choices at higher levels, and swapping them out whenever they gain a level. They still get Lay on Hands, Auras, Channel Div, Fighting Style, Divine Sense, Faithful Steed, etc.
• Druids become half-casters, but their Shape-shifting becomes more powerful, plus some innate nature-y magic (like talking to animals, etc.)
• Sorcerers don't have spell slots. Instead they use the Five Torches Deep mechanic. (Briefly: no limit to spells cast per day, but every time you cast you make an Arcana check, and on a failure you can't cast that level spell until a long rest. Also, bad stuff can happen on a failure.)
• Bards become half-casters, also with an Invocation-like mechanic.

Let the hatred commence, but I would love a D&D that looked like this.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Sorcerers don't have spell slots. Instead they use the Five Torches Deep mechanic. (Briefly: no limit to spells cast per day, but every time you cast you make an Arcana check, and on a failure you can't cast that level spell until a long rest. Also, bad stuff can happen on a failure.

sorcerers are already mid at best, i think this would just kill them. like, why would i ever try to use any spell out of combat if i risk not being able to use any spell of that level for the rest of the day? and hell, in combat an unlucky roll can just kill my turn, and enough unlucky rolls can kill my entire day. i don't think this would work for dnd at all.

Bards become half-casters, also with an Invocation-like mechanic.

i've done some thinking about what it might be like if the bard became a half-caster but had the ability to use charisma saves instead of constitution saves for concentration and could modify healing/buffing/debuffing spells to apply to creatures of your choice that can hear/see you instead of the regular targets. so for example, if you cast healing word, you can throw it out to several allies instead of just one, effectively replicating mass healing word. probably wouldn't be super balanced even with the half caster restriction but i thought the idea was neat.

 

[Bill Zebub]

sorcerers are already mid at best, i think this would just kill them. like, why would i ever try to use any spell out of combat if i risk not being able to use any spell of that level for the rest of the day? and hell, in combat an unlucky roll can just kill my turn, and enough unlucky rolls can kill my entire day. i don't think this would work for dnd at all.

More rituals? Maybe +1 on the check for each extra round you spend casting? Maybe only risk it if the situation is worth it? Maybe supercharge cantrips so that even if you get really unlucky and lock out all your spell levels, you still have good cantrips? Maybe play a Wizard if you want out-of-combat casting?

I don't know the exact answer, but I tend to not throw ideas out completely just because the first pass isn't perfect. (I know, I know....99% of the entire 1D&D discussion is exactly that so WTF am I doing here?)

And you may be right; it might just not work.

 

[MarkB]

I'm not super-keen on half-casters, and especially not under the new OneD&D spell lists paradigm where they don't even get exclusive spells to make up for some of that lower power level.

But a druid subclass that focused on wild shape at the expense of spellcasting (or used spell slots to fuel improved wild shape abilities) might be a cool variant.

 

[nevin]

I hate the combined spell lists. I do think rangers, paladins, and other 1/2 caster melee should have special abilities not spells. I'd like to see Paladins drift back towards being the one class that Caster's fear to cross.

 

[cbwjm]

I wouldnt mind seeing a half-caster bard and strengthening their non-casting side. Not sure about the other changes though, at least not as base DnD, as a standalone setting though, these changes could be interesting. For the base game though, I'd prefer that rangers and paladins are kept as half casters, druids as full casters, and sorcerers keeping the same spellcasting system as others.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Combining ideas from several different threads, I'm imagining a world (that will never occur, at least not under WotC's watch) in which:

• Rangers don't have normal spell slots. Instead they have something like Warlock Invocations, in which they get to pick and choose their favorite toys, some of which may involve spells.
• Paladins don't have spells at all. Instead they are designed like Battlemasters or Sorcerers, in which they have a resource they can spend on Smites. They get to pick from a list of Smites, getting more choices at higher levels, and swapping them out whenever they gain a level. They still get Lay on Hands, Auras, Channel Div, Fighting Style, Divine Sense, Faithful Steed, etc.
• Druids become half-casters, but their Shape-shifting becomes more powerful, plus some innate nature-y magic (like talking to animals, etc.)
• Sorcerers don't have spell slots. Instead they use the Five Torches Deep mechanic. (Briefly: no limit to spells cast per day, but every time you cast you make an Arcana check, and on a failure you can't cast that level spell until a long rest. Also, bad stuff can happen on a failure.)
• Bards become half-casters, also with an Invocation-like mechanic.

Let the hatred commence, but I would love a D&D that looked like this.

all sound intresting... I often use warlock to make NPC ___s so 2 high spell slots and spells known from the list for the class I am duplicating...

having said that but I have a class I wanted to make that had a half caster warlock (so start with 1 1st level slot and end up at level 20 with 3 5th level slots) but also a mana system based on sorcerer sorcery pts... BUT you can spend them to make spell slots OR invest them in things to impower (kind of like arcanum from 3.5) but one example was to invest in a cantrip to let you add your stat mod to damage (like the eldritch blast trick)

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'd like to see Paladins drift back towards being the one class that Caster's fear to cross.

Which makes more sense if they don’t actually cast spells themselves.

 

[Krachek]

Not an impossible wish,
using home brew or 3pp those classes are certainly possible.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I hate the combined spell lists. I do think rangers, paladins, and other 1/2 caster melee should have special abilities not spells. I'd like to see Paladins drift back towards being the one class that Caster's fear to cross.

I'm not super-keen on half-casters, and especially not under the new OneD&D spell lists paradigm where they don't even get exclusive spells to make up for some of that lower power level.

TBH i want every class to get a bunch of this class only spells, and some that only 2 or 3 classes share plus a generic spell list