What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: Yasuke’s enslavement, real or fiction

I’m not a historian; I’ve heard he was enslaved. If he wasn’t, that’s great, and I’d hope the falsehood would be exposed and expunged.

 

[MGibster]

So who, exactly is proposing we eliminate controversial content? This thread appears to be about the content of home games, leaving aside the argument about Yasuke.

That's a good question. I suspect this thread was inspired by the many threads we have going on about Dark Sun, and while many people might not think it's appropriate for a D&D product to have a society where slavery exists, it doesn't follow that they want to eliminate all problematic elements from all games.

On the other hand I run and play D&D as escapist fantasy and make no apologies about that. I do not believe that there is anything wrong with escapist fantasy and to be honest I suspect that most games are run as escapist fantasy not deep explorations of the human condition.

D&D has typically been a way for people to play out their adolescent male fantasies. I'm with you on the escapist fantasy.

 

[Lanefan]

... a bunch if highly isolationist, borderlining xenophobic, realms with no interaction with each other.
Elf kingdom, dwarf kingdom, human kingdom 1, human kingdom 2, both modeled after real life societies often separated by quite some distance and time which both being culturally pure and don't influencing each other.

That pretty much sums up much of my own setting; other than some more closely-neighbouring realms which may or may not be at war with each other at any given time. Elves and Dwarves are particularly isolationist, with those of other species invited into their realms only in the most unusual of circumstances.

There's some trade here and there, but much of it is often conducted either at border towns almost purpose-built for trading or at major (usually sea-coast) cities which tend to be somewhat more cosmopolitan. For example, in my faux-ancient-Greece there's two major coastal cities where pretty much any kindred species may be found, while the farms and towns and villages inland hold almost nothing but Humans.

 

[Jd Smith1]

....you would end up with a bunch if highly isolationist, borderlining xenophobic, realms with no interaction with each other.

Nothing wrong with borderline xenophobic realms. Nothing like bigotry and regional animosity to generate color and plot hooks, and complicate the PCs' lives.

RPGs function best in situations of conflict and social decline.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That is my point. But most RPGs like D&D are set in a world roughly 500 years ago.

Only if you squint hard enough. Most rpgs are set in a ren Faire version of the past. We cannot help bringing modern sensibilities into our games. I do not have an issue with that because this is something we are doing for fun. Maybe there are paragons of method acting in rpgs out there but I have never met them. Most tables I have played at people spent more time on Monty Python references than deep rp.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That's a good question. I suspect this thread was inspired by the many threads we have going on about Dark Sun, and while many people might not think it's appropriate for a D&D product to have a society where slavery exists, it doesn't follow that they want to eliminate all problematic elements from all games.

D&D has typically been a way for people to play out their adolescent male fantasies. I'm with you on the escapist fantasy.

I am inclined to agree, and that is possibly why there are more posts on Yasuke than on the main topic.
Dark Sun, on the other hand, well we do not really get setting books from WoTC anymore. We set some setting material to support an adventure. I even mostly approve since the book is more usable that way in a general way.
However, that means that any one looking for lore is better off getting the old stuff on DMsGuild, or third party new stuff.

 

[Bagpuss]

Or, to turn the question around, are fantasy adventure games the best vehicle to explore disturbing and upsetting topics from our real history?

Does it need to be? Roleplaying is a good was to explore history though, I mean you see re-enactments, you often have actors playing historic roles at castles and stately homes. Kids do roleplaying in history class.

So it might not be the best vehicle, but it is certainly one that is commonly used to explore real history.

 

[Imaro]

Re: Yasuke’s enslavement, real or fiction

I’m not a historian; I’ve heard he was enslaved. If he wasn’t, that’s great, and I’d hope the falsehood would be exposed and expunged.

My point is what he accomplished isn't diminished because he wasn't a slave. Again I feel this, and the way some posters have been hyper-focused on slavery granting worth to his accomplishments ties back into slavery, through media, having been somehow intrinsically linked to black people... even though slavery outside of antebellum affected numerous peoples.

 

[Imaro]

Only if you squint hard enough. Most rpgs are set in a ren Faire version of the past. We cannot help bringing modern sensibilities into our games. I do not have an issue with that because this is something we are doing for fun. Maybe there are paragons of method acting in rpgs out there but I have never met them. Most tables I have played at people spent more time on Monty Python references than deep rp.

I would go even further and say most fantasy rpg's just utilize the trappings of the past to establish some sort of familiarity for the players but aren't actually based on a historically accurate past.

 

[Burt Baccara]

If there can't be anything bad in fiction, there's precious little for the heroes to do.

If every book—and RPG—is about utopia, the genre will get old very quickly.

It also ignores thousands of years of human storytelling, which includes warnings weaved in, even subtle ones about the negative side of human nature. Some of what is now seen as problematic are warnings of what not to do.