D&D 5E Martials should just get free feats

[GMforPowergamers]

No, it's not—not in the way you want it to be. Anecdotal evidence is useful for existence claims. It cannot prove the kinds of things you want it to prove.

it is the only thign we have... no one on here has better then anecedotal evidence of anything dealing with this game... some of us have more some less.
@Umbran said:

EzekielRaidan has a point. A good way to say this might be that anecdotal evidence is not data. Anecdotal evidence does not generalize. Anecdotal evidence is effectively self-selected polling, and does not provide a representative sample from which one can make broad claims.

again, useing that logic there is nothing to discus... we don't have better data and we can't get better data... the only thing we can do is share our experiences.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They are exaggerating certainly, but there were an awful lot of class powers that functionally did the same thing for different classes with different names.

liek I said, close enough

 

[GMforPowergamers]

i just show that social interaction can be interpreted and play way differently. Of course some DM prefer roll dice, but combat encounters are run much more the same way by all and we see only very rare exception where DM don’t use dice for combat encounters.

so if we rarely see combat done that way you understand the divide between player skill and character skill.

And I agree that casters allow thinker and smart players to run the show over players that simply want to be there, roleplay, and follow the group and the story. Those players still need classes and build that require less management and thinking.

again split up the martial roles more so those smart players can choose to be martial OR caster...

If the game give martial classes as much options as casters then thinker and active players will simply run the show with any classes. Is it a better thing?

yes... more options = better.... instead of "all teh experienced people that know how to game the system ignore 3-5 classes, and as such loose access to entrie concepts/

they already try to offer all classes the same experience and options in 4ed. Will they try it again with one DND? Not sure.

and I like 4e as the best D&D

But I think it is pretty easy to adapt existing classes to fluff a complex martial class. Just tweak the frame of paladin, Ranger, warlock and fluff a selection of spells into martial abilities you will have what you ask for.
The OP did right. He home brew his game.

we often refluff sword bard or hexblade as our fighters... sometinmes warcleric or even once a druid

 

[Krachek]

so if we rarely see combat done that way you understand the divide between player skill and character skill.

again split up the martial roles more so those smart players can choose to be martial OR caster...

yes... more options = better.... instead of "all teh experienced people that know how to game the system ignore 3-5 classes, and as such loose access to entrie concepts/

and I like 4e as the best D&D

we often refluff sword bard or hexblade as our fighters... sometinmes warcleric or even once a druid

Then your are doomed.
5ed don’t fill your needs, and for what I see from the one dnd playtest it will be worse for you In the future. Prepared spells for everyone, spell preparation linked to spell slots won’t satisfied creative players. The game will be easier and more straightforward than actual edition. That is normal since they aim a large audience of new players.

You will have to continue home brew and play 4ed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then your are doomed.
5ed don’t fill your needs, and for what I see from the one dnd playtest it will be worse for you In the future. Prepared spells for everyone, spell preparation linked to spell slots won’t satisfied creative players. The game will be easier and more straightforward than actual edition. That is normal since they aim a large audience of new players.

You will have to continue home brew and play 4ed.

Yup. WotC does not have the best interests of a lot of people here at heart. They're aiming for a bigger fish that only swallows softer, less flavorful bait.

 

[Krachek]

Yup. WotC does not have the best interests of a lot of people here at heart. They're aiming for a bigger fish that only swallows softer, less flavorful bait.

Indeed, we have here a bunch of specialists, gamers, designers, like 1:1000 players.

 

[FallenRX]

this is why I suggest breaking the fighter into 3 based on the 3 subclasses in the PHB, keep a champion style simple fighter (they can even keep the name) give us a half caster like the sword mage or magus or dusk blade, and a complex warlord or warblade or sword sage.

That is already what we have in the game...for the exact same reason.

Though people see me giving free feats as just giving martials more damage, but it actively does give them way more utility too, if not more than damage, there is more utility feats than damage feats lol.

This method is giving martials a versatile platform to basically do anything, more damage? Sure, More utility sure, more spells and special moves? sure, trying to argue it is jsut giving them damage isnt at all true, since you can use feats as a immediate platform for any build idea.

From a Pseudo Casters, by taking magic, and artifice initiate, to a skill based class using Skilled, prodigy and Skill Expert.
There is a lot to do

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Then your are doomed.

how cheery....
because we disagre on a game I am doomed.
cause wotc never listens or redoes concepts...

I don't get this, I am only not getting what I want if I stop pushing for it... as long as I push sooner or later just like at the end of 3.5 they will come through

5ed don’t fill your needs,

that I why I suggest changes

and for what I see from the one dnd playtest it will be worse for you In the future.

only if I do as you suggest and "shut up and go away"

Prepared spells for everyone, spell preparation linked to spell slots won’t satisfied creative players. The game will be easier and more straightforward than actual edition. That is normal since they aim a large audience of new players.

You will have to continue home brew and play 4ed.

or I can keep banigng my drum and hope enough people agree and join me to get WotC to change there minds.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That is already what we have in the game...for the exact same reason.

no it isn't

as long as all three are forced into only subclass of a single class we do not have what I suggested, 3 separate classes

Though people see me giving free feats as just giving martials more damage, but it actively does give them way more utility too, if not more than damage, there is more utility feats than damage feats lol.

correct, and if you go back to my example build I didn't take sharp shooter or GWM I took lucky and two feats that give misc abailities... so I totally see what you are trying, I just feel it isn't enouigh.

There is a lot to do

did you miss my example buildd?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

lets imagine a 9th level fighter... this is when they are are (by raw) the worst, they have not gotten there 3rd attack and they do not have much other then hp to speak of.


Okay so lets make a quick champion (RAW) the arrya is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8
So lets say I am a dex build... I will fight with a rapier(refluff as elven longsword) and longbow I am making a 2014phb half elf with the high elf (so I can get a cantrip) as my race.

So I am putting 10 into str 15 and +1 into dex 13 and +1 into con 8 into int 14 into wis and 12 into cha that gets +2
I get action surge and second wind each 1/sr indomintable 1/long rest
defensive figtingg style gives me +1 AC
I get 3 normal ASI plus your 2 feats
I am taking prestidigitation at will
I make 2 attacks per attack action and I crit on a 19+
I add half prof to str dex and can checks (including skills) that I don't add prof too...
I am going to up my dex to 18 with 1 ASI, take defensive duelist with another, then fey touched for detect magic and misty step each 1/ day and I get to boost my int to a 9.
Your two bonus are easy... lucky and shadow touched for invisability and disguise self and boosting that int to a 10.


So I end up with Str 10 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 CHa 14
1 cantrip at will 2 2nd level spells at 1/day 2 1st level spells at 1/day +1 to my AC add prof to 1 hit as reaction as well 3 luck pts for rerolls 1 indomitable for rerolls and action surge and second wind.... I have 9d10HD so about 70hp most likely an AC 18 with +4 against 1 target as a reaction.
I attack twice with a 1d8+4 and attack with a +8 to hit.


now lets make a hexblade warlorck.

also a half elf, this time no house rule boosts
at level 9 I have 2 5th level spell slots (short rest) 9 spells kknown between 1st and 5th I have 2 attacks for 1d8+5 and my attacks are at +9 my save DCs are also at 17 and my AC is 17 and my HD is 9d8
its much closer then I thought...

I hope by reposing this we can get back to the topic... but I bet I will see 5-9 argueing about if the fighter needs a fix and 1 or 2 more suggesting that nothing we say matters to MAYBE 1 about the topic of the thread,,,