D&D 5E What is REALLY wrong with the Wizard? (+)

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm fine with mythic martials at appropriate levels, I'm fine with metacurrency as long as it's not built into the structure of the core game (maybe on a class or archetype basis), but I don't think a hard nerf to casters is the answer, and I'm virtually certain it would not be acceptable by either WotC or a significant portion of the D&D population.

I would love an opt in (through subclass or something) metacurrency, and martials that grow to mythic levels as at least close to a caster.
As for the nerf to spells, I would take some clues from 2e here... like haste ages you ext...

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would love an opt in (through subclass or something) metacurrency, and martials that grow to mythic levels as at least close to a caster.
As for the nerf to spells, I would take some clues from 2e here... like haste ages you ext...

Oh, are you talking about consequences for casting that don't necessarily reduce the power of the spells? I apologize; I'm all for that, completely. Bring it on!

 

[James Gasik]

Pfft. Everyone talks about how horrible aging a year for casting Haste was. I've been playing the game since 1987, and the only time I ever saw aging be a factor was when a ghost was running around aging people 10 years a turn. And that's back when characters had aging penalties and a maximum life span!

If you were really worried about it, you could play a Dwarf or an Elf or something. And let's not get into how ridiculous the penalty of Haste was when used by a Dragon or an Undead, lol.

Plus, in the current era of the game, aging doesn't even modify your stats! (See Crawford's "age is just a number" comments about timey wimey Wild Magic).

Even if this was a deterrent, it would just make people not use those spells, like how I never saw anyone mess around with Permanency.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Pfft. Everyone talks about how horrible aging a year for casting Haste was. I've been playing the game since 1987, and the only time I ever saw aging be a factor was when a ghost was running around aging people 10 years a turn. And that's back when characters had aging penalties and a maximum life span!

If you were really worried about it, you could play a Dwarf or an Elf or something. And let's not get into how ridiculous the penalty of Haste was when used by a Dragon or an Undead, lol.

Plus, in the current era of the game, aging doesn't even modify your stats! (See Crawford's "age is just a number" comments about timey wimey Wild Magic).

Even if this was a deterrent, it would just make people not use those spells, like how I never saw anyone mess around with Permanency.

So what you're saying is, bring back aging penalties and a maximum life span? I am all for it! I really think casters should suffer for the ultimate power they should still potentially be able to wield. Not sarcasm.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

So what you're saying is, bring back aging penalties and a maximum life span? I am all for it! I really think casters should suffer for the ultimate power they should still potentially be able to wield. Not sarcasm.

i uh. i think his point was it wasn't actually a meaningful penalty even with those things.

 

[James Gasik]

So what you're saying is, bring back aging penalties and a maximum life span? I am all for it! I really think casters should suffer for the ultimate power they should still potentially be able to wield. Not sarcasm.

No, lol. I'm saying that even if you did bring them back, it wouldn't change much; stat loss and aging penalties for spells just made people either end run around them (we'll be Elves!) or avoid those spells entirely. The fact that WotC doesn't feel that aging penalties are appropriate for their game is just the icing on the cake.

Plus, well, having reached the age where I should have gotten a bonus to my mental stats and didn't, I can say the AD&D modifiers are a FILTHY DIRTY LIE!

 

[Micah Sweet]

i uh. i think his point was it wasn't actually a meaningful penalty even with those things.

Then make casting penalties more meaningful! The principle is strong, in my view.

 

[James Gasik]

Then make casting penalties more meaningful! The principle is strong, in my view.

It just goes back to the idea that if you try to balance things by making them annoying to use, many players will just opt out one way or another, turning the whole affair into a "virtual ban" of those classes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It just goes back to the idea that if you try to balance things by making them annoying to use, many players will just opt out one way or another, turning the whole affair into a "virtual ban" of those classes.

I don't know, I saw an awful lot of magic-users back in the day. Its a viable design tactic that has fallen out of practice in modern gaming (outside the OSR). Sadly so, IMO.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Pfft. Everyone talks about how horrible aging a year for casting Haste was. I've been playing the game since 1987, and the only time I ever saw aging be a factor was when a ghost was running around aging people 10 years a turn. And that's back when characters had aging penalties and a maximum life span!

Tbh I don't need it to be a massive penelty. It can be 100% fluff (awful spry 70 year old human since you have the same stats as you did at 20) I just want the player to record that age, let it seep into there minds and there RP.

If you were really worried about it, you could play a Dwarf or an Elf or something. And let's not get into how ridiculous the penalty of Haste was when used by a Dragon or an Undead, lol.

I never once saw an elf age a year or two and not stop to contemplated it... I guess to some the ageing only mattered if it lowered your str... but to most I knew in 90's the idea of ageing a year in 10 minutes was something you took serious. We never had dragon characters but I do remember the vampire character did joke about haste a few times.

Plus, in the current era of the game, aging doesn't even modify your stats! (See Crawford's "age is just a number" comments about timey wimey Wild Magic).

okay. so then we can add the number and let people think and play with it as they do.

I will say this my 18 or 19 year old brash fighter that gets hasted 5 times in 30 days and is all of a sudden 24 is going to have a bit of a crisis

Even if this was a deterrent, it would just make people not use those spells, like how I never saw anyone mess around with Permanency.

really? I saw permanency used at least 1 or 2 times any campaign that hit 15+ level... did people really freak about a point of con?
I had to look it up, I knew it was a large swath... but 7-14 con didn't do anything to your hp, just system shock and ability to be raised. I didn't see many wizards or clerics with 15 or 16 con