Planescape 5e Planescape- What would you like to see in the upcoming setting?

I'd prefer they do the archs in a bonus pdf/add-on, so I can ignore them. My games don't go high enough level to face them, and I'm not particularly fond of them anyways. There's lot smaller stat blocks and creatures I'd prefer to have in a book.

I'd hope for stat blocks for
  • Dabus
  • Archons
  • Shades of Hades
  • Gearworks (modrons, gear spirits, inevitables)
  • Faction members
  • A handful of lesser demons/devils/daemons (CR 6 or less mostly)
  • Guardinals
  • Fey of Tir Na Og
  • Grues
 

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So, I'm going to start speculation on the one part of this set we can actually have some reasonably concrete ideas on what might be in it: the bestiary. Since we have an equivalent 64-page bestiary from the Spelljammer set, and we can check out old Planescape and other extra-planar products from previous editions to see what prominent creatures have yet to be updated to 5e, we can already get some ideas on what creatures might be included in this set.
Interesting!

For creatures that will be foes, particularly lords, I think we'll just have detailed anything discoverable in the "first layer" of a plane, or a corresponding gate town. We already have Zuriel, so at most we'll get a mention of the hierarchy of Hell but not further stat blocks. I think a stat block for Pazuzu is probable.

I definitely want the details on the Demodands/Gehreleths, Formians, and the leadership modrons. I'm hoping that they will have a pretty radical re-work of them, making them more abstract or alien. Also, since part of Planescape is having non-violent encounters with extra-planar creatures, I am also hoping for interesting Celestials, as you mentioned, that can be interacted with and make sense.
 

Boo's Astral Menagerie is 64 pages long, and contains (if I counted correctly) 72 stat blocks. Most pages have 1 or 2 stat blocks per page, with one page each having 3 and 4. No single creature takes up more than one page, unless you count full-page splash art like for the dragons. So this would seem to be a good baseline for what might be in the Planescape bestiary.
Don't forget variants of a single monster, which means one monster could hypothetically take up 2-3 pages.

But what I personally would want to see, and hope to see, would be more monsters of Law and Chaos. The moignos, the parai, the busen, new slaadi (I'm forever annoyed that the chaotic neutral slaadi have an evil death slaad, but no good life slaad--chaos isn't evil), chaos beasts (they had my favorite flavor text in all of 2e), and things like that.

I'd also like to see the nic'epona, although I have a suspicion people would say they're just My Little Ponies.

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But they make for an interesting alternate way to travel.
 

Don't forget variants of a single monster, which means one monster could hypothetically take up 2-3 pages.

But what I personally would want to see, and hope to see, would be more monsters of Law and Chaos. The moignos, the parai, the busen, new slaadi (I'm forever annoyed that the chaotic neutral slaadi have an evil death slaad, but no good life slaad--chaos isn't evil), chaos beasts (they had my favorite flavor text in all of 2e), and things like that.

I'd also like to see the nic'epona, although I have a suspicion people would say they're just My Little Ponies.

View attachment 281313

But they make for an interesting alternate way to travel.
100% all this. The planes shouldn't feel like cosplayers from the prime material. It should feel very different (ideally, every plane would feel distinct, but D&D has had a tough time managing that with the Great Wheel, IMO) and a lot of it should feel weird.
 

Don't forget variants of a single monster, which means one monster could hypothetically take up 2-3 pages.

But what I personally would want to see, and hope to see, would be more monsters of Law and Chaos. The moignos, the parai, the busen, new slaadi (I'm forever annoyed that the chaotic neutral slaadi have an evil death slaad, but no good life slaad--chaos isn't evil), chaos beasts (they had my favorite flavor text in all of 2e), and things like that.

I'd also like to see the nic'epona, although I have a suspicion people would say they're just My Little Ponies.

View attachment 281313

But they make for an interesting alternate way to travel.
I had a lot of fun using the Nic'Epona in a non-PS game where their herds intermingled with the plains herds of the barbarian PC's culture. During a scene, the barbarian PC lured the Nic'Epona into a stampede against a marching hobgoblin army and the planeshifting Nic'Epona shifted away a big swath of the army. It was a fun scene.

With the slaad, I recall an old Dragon article with the Gormeel (Kormeel?) that were LN slaadi who could shapeshift into githzerai form and were allied with githzerai. That's kinda interesting with 5e adjusting the Spawning Stone lore to have originated from the LN entity Primus.
 

Now this is my kind of speculation post! I like a lot of what you speculate here. I don't have much to add, but I do have a few comments:
  1. I think they will touch on a lot of the groups you suggest. However, just as the have done in almost every other case, I think they will likely not cover all members of the group. So you will not get all 7 members of any one group.
  2. I definitely don't expect to get all the archdevils for similar reasons to point #1 and page count. Though we currently only have one of the "9," we also have two former members: Moloch & Geryon. I think we get 4-5 at most.
  3. I don't think we will get more demon lords, but I could be wrong.
  4. They have hinted that there will be more high level monsters in the '24 MM, so this could be an early preview of that approach.
  5. What about high level yugoloths? General of Gehenna anyone?!
  6. More inevitables?
  7. I don't think it will happen, but I would love to get mythic versions of the demon lords and archdevils (and just a CR upgrade to Demo and Orcus is needed as well).
I agree on a lot of this. However, I'm going to guess all the "traditional" archons and guardinals will appear. As I mentioned, there are only 6 original guardinal types, the most powerful of which (the leonals) are only in the mid-CR range (they were CR 12 in 3e). And I forgot that the tome archons, as rulers of the layers of Mt Celestia, were individualized in 2e, meaning both that they likely won't appear and that there are only 6 remaining types of original archons to worry about (although the throne archons are fairly high level, with a presumably larger stat block). They probably both collectively could fit into 4 - 5 pages each, which together would be no more than a sixth of our page count.

I agree, however, that the Archdevils and hierarch modrons, while important, are going be hard to fit in in their entirities, and we'll likely not see all of them, unless any left out end up in the likely D&D Beyond suppliment. Thinking further on this, giving stats for Levistus is pretty futile, as he's trapped in a block of impenetrable ice, making him an easy candidate for exclusion. I'd have to say that the more iconic Archdevils (which I would say would be Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Mephistopheles, and Dispater) will definitely be in, and we'll have to see about the others. As for the hierarch modrons, as they make a direct numerical sequence from 10 to 1 in their names, I guess if they do end up only doing some, they'll do the next lowest five, the decatons through the hextons. Granted, if they do, say, 2 pages of description and then two stat blocks per page, they could potentially get all 10 in just 7 pages, although art and a likely large Primus stat block would likely more realistically mean 8 or 9.

Some comparisons to the Spelljammer bestiary are very helpful here. There are a lot of groups with 3 stat blocks, and they and the descriptive text all fit on 2 pages. The astral elves have 5 stat blocks, and their entire entry all fits on 3 pages. The two dragon types have some larger stat blocks, and fit 4 stat blocks and text on 4 pages, although in each case, one of the four pages is nothing but a full page illustration.

Hmm, maybe some time for math, and making estimates leaning towards a larger number of pages for groups, if they all hypothetically appear in the book:

9 (8) Archdevils: 18 (16) pages
10 hierarch modrons: 9 pages
6 archons: 5 pages
6 guardinals: 5 pages
3 demodands: 2 pages

That gives us 39 (or 37 without Levistus) pages out of 64, and assuming 4 pages used for the ToC and other introductory material, leaves us 11 pages for other things (13 if they skip out on Levistus). That's not excitingly good, but also not terrible, especially with the likely overflow room for 10 or so more stat blocks on D&D Beyond (which could very well include some of these - honestly, dumping some or most of the Archdevils there, where their larger page count is much less of a problem, would seem pretty reasonable)
 

I agree on a lot of this. However, I'm going to guess all the "traditional" archons and guardinals will appear. As I mentioned, there are only 6 original guardinal types, the most powerful of which (the leonals) are only in the mid-CR range (they were CR 12 in 3e). And I forgot that the tome archons, as rulers of the layers of Mt Celestia, were individualized in 2e, meaning both that they likely won't appear and that there are only 6 remaining types of original archons to worry about (although the throne archons are fairly high level, with a presumably larger stat block). They probably both collectively could fit into 4 - 5 pages each, which together would be no more than a sixth of our page count.

I agree, however, that the Archdevils and hierarch modrons, while important, are going be hard to fit in in their entirities, and we'll likely not see all of them, unless any left out end up in the likely D&D Beyond suppliment. Thinking further on this, giving stats for Levistus is pretty futile, as he's trapped in a block of impenetrable ice, making him an easy candidate for exclusion. I'd have to say that the more iconic Archdevils (which I would say would be Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Mephistopheles, and Dispater) will definitely be in, and we'll have to see about the others. As for the hierarch modrons, as they make a direct numerical sequence from 10 to 1 in their names, I guess if they do end up only doing some, they'll do the next lowest five, the decatons through the hextons. Granted, if they do, say, 2 pages of description and then two stat blocks per page, they could potentially get all 10 in just 7 pages, although art and a likely large Primus stat block would likely more realistically mean 8 or 9.

Some comparisons to the Spelljammer bestiary are very helpful here. There are a lot of groups with 3 stat blocks, and they and the descriptive text all fit on 2 pages. The astral elves have 5 stat blocks, and their entire entry all fits on 3 pages. The two dragon types have some larger stat blocks, and fit 4 stat blocks and text on 4 pages, although in each case, one of the four pages is nothing but a full page illustration.

Hmm, maybe some time for math, and making estimates leaning towards a larger number of pages for groups, if they all hypothetically appear in the book:

9 (8) Archdevils: 18 (16) pages
10 hierarch modrons: 9 pages
6 archons: 5 pages
6 guardinals: 5 pages
3 demodands: 2 pages

That gives us 39 (or 37 without Levistus) pages out of 64, and assuming 4 pages used for the ToC and other introductory material, leaves us 11 pages for other things (13 if they skip out on Levistus). That's not excitingly good, but also not terrible, especially with the likely overflow room for 10 or so more stat blocks on D&D Beyond (which could very well include some of these - honestly, dumping some or most of the Archdevils there, where their larger page count is much less of a problem, would seem pretty reasonable)
I will surprised if they stat Primus and I don't seem them spending 16 pages on the arch devils. I am thinking closer to 25-30 pages for the groups you list with about 32 pages of other monsters.
 

I sort of doubt that they'll stat the archdevils as well, it's a decent chunk of space that can be used for creatures that DMs are more likely to use. I think at best we'll see 2 or 3, perhaps a reprint of Zarial, and the rest will be lower level planar monsters.
 


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