D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Maxperson]

Off the top of my head. Racist overtone in the phb.

Only mixed races are called out as being subject to fetishization and bigotry.

That is wrong.

Here's some bigotry from Dwarves.

"Elves. "It's not wise to depend on the elves. No telling what an elf will do next; when the hammer meets the orc's head, they're as apt to start singing as to pull out a sword. They're flighty and frivolous. Two things to be said for them, though: They don't have many smiths, but the ones they have do very fine work. And when orcs or goblins come streaming down out of the mountains, an elf's good to have at your back. Not as good as a dwarf, maybe, but no doubt they hate the orcs as much as we do."

"Halflings. "Sure, they're pleasant folk. But show me a halfling hero. An empire, a triumphant army. Even a treasure for the ages made by halfling hands. Nothing. How can you take them seriously?"

Elven bigotry.

"Dwarves. " Dwarves are dull , clumsy oafs. But what they lack in h u mor, sophistication, and manners, they make up in valor. And I must admit, their best smiths produce art that approaches elven quality."

I love how dwarves are still "clumsy oafs" in a system that no longer gives them a dex penalty.

Human bigotry.

"Dwarves. "They're stout folk, stalwart friends, and true to their word. Their greed for gold is their downfall, though."

"Elves. " It's best not to wander into elven woods. They don't like intruders, and you'll as likely be bewitched as peppered with arrows. Still, if an elf can get past that damned racial pride and actually treat you like an equal, you can learn a lot from them."

Halflings. " It's hard to beat a meal in a halfling home, as long as you don't crack your head on the ceiling-good food and good stories in front of a nice, warm fire. If halflings had a shred of ambition, they might really amount to something."

I'm going to stop here. I've found bigotry and racism in every races except for halflings so far, so I think I've proven my point. I mean hell, if we want to treat that language about dwarves being greedy the same way as we are treating the orcs and "savage", then the dwarves are stand-ins for my people the Jews

 

[Micah Sweet]

I can see that, but when did that happen? 3e?

Yeah, most likely. We get Strength bonuses there to orcs as monsters and half-orcs as PCs both. I remember being surprised nearly to the point of TPK in my first 3e game by a small group of orcs (3 I think). Much deadlier with the Strength bonus and the greataxes.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm going to stop here. I've found bigotry and racism in every races except for halflings so far, so I think I've proven my point. I mean ----, if we want to treat that language about dwarves being greedy the same way as we are treating the orcs and "savage", then the dwarves are stand-ins for my people the Jews

It's kind of mind-boggling how Tolkien's fantasy Nazis (orcs) have somehow become a race that people willingly identify with and become offended on behalf of.

It's probably Warcraft's influence but still.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's kind of mind-boggling how Tolkien's fantasy Nazis (orcs) have somehow become a race that people willingly identify with and become offended on behalf of.

It's probably Warcraft's influence but still.

Warcraft and Warhammer, yeah.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Elder Scrolls orcs still value strength and combat, and in the past have raided other nations, but they are also master smiths and masons, have a code of honor, and believe wood is an inferior material to steel and stone and never use it for building.

So basically they stole a lot of dwarf and goliath tropes and added them to orcs, but it's a unique take...

That's using the classic tropes though. Tolkien orcs are master smiths and make cunning machines from metal.

 

[Maxperson]

The game doesn't explain how the orc raiders don't all starve.

It doesn't have to. Clearly they get food from raiding and hunting. A blurb about orcs can't get into the details about orc society, but they will have hunters. Hell if you really want to look at a certain way, hunting is just raiding the land, so they're still raiders!

If you want the game to explain every detail about how the various races survive, none of them can survive. Not one race(PC or otherwise) has enough detail to explain its survival.

 

[Justice and Rule]

That is wrong.

Here's some bigotry from Dwarves.

"Elves. "It's not wise to depend on the elves. No telling what an elf will do next; when the hammer meets the orc's head, they're as apt to start singing as to pull out a sword. They're flighty and frivolous. Two things to be said for them, though: They don't have many smiths, but the ones they have do very fine work. And when orcs or goblins come streaming down out of the mountains, an elf's good to have at your back. Not as good as a dwarf, maybe, but no doubt they hate the orcs as much as we do."

"Halflings. "Sure, they're pleasant folk. But show me a halfling hero. An empire, a triumphant army. Even a treasure for the ages made by halfling hands. Nothing. How can you take them seriously?"

Elven bigotry.

"Dwarves. " Dwarves are dull , clumsy oafs. But what they lack in h u mor, sophistication, and manners, they make up in valor. And I must admit, their best smiths produce art that approaches elven quality."

I love how dwarves are still "clumsy oafs" in a system that no longer gives them a dex penalty.

Human bigotry.

"Dwarves. "They're stout folk, stalwart friends, and true to their word. Their greed for gold is their downfall, though."

"Elves. " It's best not to wander into elven woods. They don't like intruders, and you'll as likely be bewitched as peppered with arrows. Still, if an elf can get past that damned racial pride and actually treat you like an equal, you can learn a lot from them."

Halflings. " It's hard to beat a meal in a halfling home, as long as you don't crack your head on the ceiling-good food and good stories in front of a nice, warm fire. If halflings had a shred of ambition, they might really amount to something."

Not really comparable, as what @Hussar says comes from an impartial narrator, while this is taken as quotes from individuals.

I'm going to stop here. I've found bigotry and racism in every races except for halflings so far, so I think I've proven my point. I mean hell, if we want to treat that language about dwarves being greedy the same way as we are treating the orcs and "savage", then the dwarves are stand-ins for my people the Jews

Not really, not in the same way. Again, there's a difference between "in-universe" and "word of God" sorts of stuff that is important to note.

If you want to talk about the semitic origins of Tolkien's dwarves, that would be interesting, however given how deeply mixed Dwarves have become with other cultures, particularly Scottish and Norse, I'm not sure it's quite the same as a race that takes most of the bad traits we associated with colonized peoples.

Really, there's an interesting discussion to be had about this stuff, but I'm not sure this is the thread.

It's kind of mind-boggling how Tolkien's fantasy Nazis (orcs) have somehow become a race that people willingly identify with and become offended on behalf of.

It's probably Warcraft's influence but still.

Eh, I'd say it's likely even before that. The idea of playing a Half-Orc came out before Warcraft, certainly. At a certain point, I think it's kind of inevitable that races you portray as resembling human will get filled in like humans, eventually turning into something closer as such.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I have found many of us enjoy D&D for a variety of reasons. Some of us spend a weekend writing a verbose article complaining about every little description, others want to game with friends eat drink and be merry. I know which kind am I.

I'm the one that wants my friends to eat drink and be merry without having to deal with the actual crap in some of those descriptions.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I'm the one that wants my friends to eat drink and be merry without having to deal with the actual crap in some of those descriptions.

Well then I think it should be easy to overwrite the default idea that dragonborn are exotic (which is a naughty word according to the article) likely based on the FR setting. Just fill up the Sword Coast with more dragonborn and reduce some of the other races. Then you won't have to deal with the vileness of that word.

 

[Maxperson]

Not really comparable, as what @Hussar says comes from an impartial narrator, while this is taken as quotes from individuals.

It's actually the opposite. His quotes come explicitly from individuals and mine are from broad racial views about other races.

Not really, not in the same way. Again, there's a difference between "in-universe" and "word of God" sorts of stuff that is important to note.

If you want to talk about the semitic origins of Tolkien's dwarves, that would be interesting, however given how deeply mixed Dwarves have become with other cultures, particularly Scottish and Norse, I'm not sure it's quite the same as a race that takes most of the bad traits we associated with colonized peoples.

Really, there's an interesting discussion to be had about this stuff, but I'm not sure this is the thread.

They aren't really Tolkien's dwarves, though. That greed comes from the old Norse tales which is where Tolkien pulled his dwarves from. I doubt that the Norse created their dwarves to be representative of jews.