D&D (2024) Dear Team WotC: Better Pact Magic Fixes

[mellored]

Here's my metric: if a class receives spell levels at the same rate as a full caster (we can use the wizard as the standard example) and gets comparable spell slot value as a full caster, that class is a full caster.

I'm not sure "can cast high level spells" was ever in any design document of a warlock.

"Had at will magic" was the original idea. (Now eveyone has at-will cantrips).

So really. Removing spell casting all together, and increasing the number of invocations would be closer to the "real" warlock.

 

[Charlaquin]

I definitely think it’s too early to make that call. Just look how much discussions have popped up in just one day. Although there are certainly those who think Pact Magic needs adjusting (I’m one of them), that doesn’t mean everyone thinks Vancian is the way to go.

The only thing I think we can be certain of is that they got a lot of feedback saying Warlocks needed more casting. I’m not sure anyone asked for Vancian slots. That’s one way to do it of course, but fixing the short rest issue also helps. I don’t think anything’s a done deal until the feedback comes in.

Exactly. I don’t think Pact Magic is likely to make it into the 2024 PHB unchanged. Wanting more spells for the warlock is an understandable desire, and I’m fully in support of finding ways to give them more spells. Just not at the cost of destroying their identity as a unique type of caster. More uses of their pact magic slots? By all means. A tweaked pact magic recovery scheme? Sure, that could work. Maybe new features that give warlocks ways of casting spells outside their pact magic slots? Worth a try. But making them another boring Vancian caster is a no-go, for me and for a lot of people who love the warlock. I think the feedback on this one is likely to be pretty polarized, much as it was on the wild shape changes. And with the wild shape changes they recognized that a different approach may be necessary. So my hope is that the same thing will happen here.

 

[Remathilis]

And it then looks likely to be cast into the abyss thanks to the feedback, with a real warlock returning.

Uh huh. I'm sure it will be right next to "pick any beast statblock out of the Monster Manual and beyond" druids...

 

[TwoSix]

I'm not sure "can cast high level spells" was ever in any design document of a warlock.

"Had at will magic" was the original idea. (Now eveyone has at-will cantrips).

So really. Removing spell casting all together, and increasing the number of invocations would be closer to the "real" warlock.

I would be very onboard with a spell-less, invocation-heavy warlock.

 

[Remathilis]

I would be very onboard with a spell-less, invocation-heavy warlock.

Honestly, that seems closer to the 3.5 warlock. I'd be fine with that too.

 

[Charlaquin]

Uh huh. I'm sure it will be right next to "pick any beast statblock out of the Monster Manual and beyond" druids...

I mean, they literally said that’s still on the table.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would be very onboard with a spell-less, invocation-heavy warlock.

Sure, I’d be open to exploring that.

 

[Mistwell]

Nope. Any “solution” that turns warlocks into any variety of Vancian caster dishonors the class’s unique mechanical identity.

I have no idea how the concept of honor applies to the mechanics. It's just mechanics. The result and how the result is used is a subject for honor, not mechanics of making them happen.

 

[TwoSix]

Sure, I’d be open to exploring that.

Drop half-casting, raise the number of invocations to 13 [definitely 13 ], add some tier 3-4 invocations that are competitive with Mystic Arcanum, and a few more of the "at-will" low level spell style invocations (like silent image and disguise self), and I'll 5-star the UA packet.

 

[Charlaquin]

I have no idea how the concept of honor applies to the mechanics. It's just mechanics. The result and how the result is used is a subject for honor, not mechanics of making them happen.

Honor in its verb form, as in to respect or show adherence to. Making warlocks Vancian casters would be disrespecting the class’s mechanical identity.