WotC Anyone Else Tired of the Wizards Bashing?

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Aww… I thought this was a thread where people were saying there was too much bashing of the Wizard class players.

Those pointy-hatted bastard deserve it, looking down on the non-Wizard from their fancy towers…

I’m exactly the same!

 

[payn]

 

[Rushbolt]

No, that is not something that would get them into trouble, not if the OGL were revoked and certainly not now that the SRD is under CC.

Well, now I'm confused because Paizo has specifically stated they need to remove certain magic items and monsters, and that necessitated the new printing. You're right though. The SRD is under CC. I was mistaken in my earlier post.

I'm not a Pathfinder player, but I'm not sure a light revision is going to get all the elements of D&D out of it. I hope it will. All I know is I don't want to see them blaming D&D for their mistakes in the future. Pathfinder 1 made millions of dollars with almost no development costs because it was basically a legally justified clone of 3.5. It's been 14 years now. The time to use the OGL as a crutch is long gone. The problem is PF is still a feat-based game, six ability scores, skill stats, etc. Many things remain intertwined. As long as that's the case, the can blame Wizards for needing to reprint forever.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Well, now I'm confused because Paizo has specifically stated they need to remove certain magic items and monsters, and that necessitated the new printing. You're right though. The SRD is under CC.

You can't blame Paizo for not trusting WotC to never try something like this again, by some other tack. We all thought the OGL was iron-clad and look how that turned out.

Is there a person out there who believes they would be issuing new rulebooks now if that hadn't happened? I don't think that's credible.

As to the larger question, yeah man, WotC's track record the past couple of years in the D&D and MtG space has been...not good. They are a 8 + billion dollar corporation. They hold no altruistic values. They do not care about you. They will never love you. They will try to screw you over the instant it makes sense for them to do so (we have demonstrable evidence of this).

So like, you know, they gotta take their lumps. I would say the pre-ponderance of the "hate" you're seeing is more of a result of Wizard's superpower. Which is, to point a gun at their foot and pull the trigger every couple of months, which then accordingly generates a reaction. The best way to stop the "negativity" would be for them to stop messing up all the time. The onus is on them, not us. Tread on those who tread on you and all that.

 

[Retreater]

Well, now I'm confused because Paizo has specifically stated they need to remove certain magic items and monsters, and that necessitated the new printing. You're right though. The SRD is under CC.

The SRD for 5e is under CC. The previous document that PF2 (and the rest of Paizo's business) was based upon (the OGL) has no protections other than a casual statement on a YouTube channel. That's some rocky ground to base your business on.
Regardless if 5e is under CC, the OGL leaks demonstrated a worst-case scenario that could've happened. It makes sense that Paizo, Kobold Press, MCDM, Critical Role (Darrington), and others are wanting to hedge their bets and abandon their business relationships with WotC/Hasbro.

 

[payn]

You can't blame Paizo for not trusting WotC to never try something like this again, by some other tact. We all thought the OGL was iron-clad and look how that turned out.

Is there a person out there who believes they would be issuing new rulebooks now if that hadn't happened? I don't think that's credible.

As to the larger question, yeah man, WotC's track record the past couple of years in the D&D and MtG space has been...not good. They are a 8 + billion dollar corporation. They hold no altruistic values. They do not care about you. They will never love you. They will try to screw you over the instant it makes sense for them to do so (we have demonstrable evidence of this).

So like, you know, they gotta take their lumps. I would say the pre-ponderance of the "hate" you're seeing is more of a result of Wizard's superpower. Which is, to point a gun at their foot and pull the trigger every couple of months, which then accordingly generates a reaction. The best way to stop the "negativity" would be for them to stop messing up all the time. The onus is on them, not us. Tread on those who tread on you and all that.

It's also interesting how WotC reneging on their OGL deal would be very bad, but Paizo reneging on their ORC deal would be just fine.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People are acting like they're Nickelback and just hated as a meme instead fo having actually done all the things they've done to upset people.

 

[eyeheartawk]

It's also interesting how WotC reneging on their OGL deal would be very bad, but Paizo reneging on their ORC deal would be just fine.

That's the difference between a first-time offender an repeat offender, I would say. So it's not inconsistent. Plus, as of right now, there is no decades long ORC based ecosystem. So the extent of the harm would be pretty minimal.

People are acting like they're Nickelback and just hated as a meme instead fo having actually done all the things they've done to upset people.

Nickelback broke up my parents' marriage.

 

[SteveC]

No, not one bit. WotC is a part of Hasbro and is a corporation that's absolutely huge. I don't have concerns for what happens with any corporations really. And WotC has done many things recently that have dropped a bomb on the gaming industry and hurt real people that are my friends. And they eventually backed off due to a massive backlash. How this will eventually work out we don't even know yet. And they just dropped the Pinkertons on someone over Magic cards after all of that backlash had pretty much wound down. So no, a corporation that has made a lot of bad decisions lately and seems to have learned nothing from them ... no, not sorry at all.

But with that said: there are gamers who work over at WotC and some of them are effectively friends of friends. I feel terrible for them because they just want to make a fun game we can all enjoy. They're the ones I feel sorry for. And from what I have heard (total hearsay, mind you) they share the negative view of corporate decisions as well but they aren't being listened to. And if you're working for someone, there's only so much you can say before they find someone else to do your job.

If anyone needs us to stick up for them, those gamer staff members need it. So if we're going to say things about WotC and Hasbro, I think it should be clear who we have a beef with. And of course that "we" is really just "me", I don't expect that I speak for anyone but myself.

 

[Retreater]

People are acting like they're Nickelback and just hated as a meme instead fo having actually done all the things they've done to upset people.

Hey, Hasbro just paid that company tens of thousands of dollars to give them a "most ethical business award" for the 12th year in a row. You can't criticize that!