D&D General Fighting Law and Order

[bloodtide]

Seriously. A good fan.........

I do agree here, and I'd point out that few GMs are this type of fan. Most GMs might try to be this, but they fall into the Buddy DM quick.

An example: a teetotal player who objects to others drinking at the table is one thing, and so maybe we don't drink at the table; but that player still has no right to object to my character drinking like a fish in the fiction nor to my hamming this up a bit as a player.

I would never agree to this: I Drink. To have even one player say "I want to force you not to drink because I say so" is wrong. YOU as a person, CAN NOT ever tell me what to do. It would be the same if I was to say "I don't want any healthy food eaten during the game". THE EXACT SAME THING.

Though if one person is the host, and having the people in their home, then yes you can set whatever rules you like. No smoking, vaping or drugs in my house, for example.

And the whole reason I run an Unrated Game is so anyone can do anything they want in the fiction.

No. I'm saying that FOR GOD'S SAKE, there must be SOMETHING we can do that is better than "players must put up, shut up, or drop a nuke from orbit" with regard to this stuff!

Well, I don't recommend it or support the idea in any way shape or form....but you could try having everyone "Talk" to each other....

There must be something else we can do to address actually realistic, rather than farcical, questionable player requests or (mis)behaviors that doesn't give absolute, perfect, 100%, unlimited and unconstrained support to DM questionable requests or (mis)behaviors, such that the only player responses are meek submission, festering silence, or explosive separation.

When ever you talk about an number of people above two, just one person has to step up and be the adult. It's just how humans work.

That's not what "being a fan of the characters..." means at all. Being a fan of the characters means ensuring that there is plenty of interesting stuff for the characters to do, that outcomes whether success or failure are interesting. That the PCs feel like protagonists (not necessarily heroes btw) and not the sidekicks in the story. That their actions have meaning in at least some way (rather than them just wandering around not actually affecting the state of anything at all). That sort of thing.

Except this take the word 'fan' off into a wild new tangent with a new meaning. "Making interesting stuff to do" is more like a creator or director or set designer.

And then when you go further to say "the GM must alter the world to make the PCs feel just right", you go into the GM making the game easy for the players. What I call a Buddy GM.

 

[Mort]

And then when you go further to say "the GM must alter the world to make the PCs feel just right", you go into the GM making the game easy for the players. What I call a Buddy GM.

You keep inserting this last bit, it's not actually there (I'm sure there are some DMs with this buddy style, but that's not what,I or the game, are talking about).

No one is saying you have to make things "easy" for the characters, but that you have to make things consistent, interesting and fun.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You keep inserting this last bit, it's not actually there (I'm sure there are some DMs with this buddy style, but that's not what,I or the game, are talking about).

No one is saying you have to make things "easy" for the characters, but that you have to make things consistent, interesting and fun.

Sounds good. How does that actually make you a "fan" of the PCs/players?

 

[dave2008]

When I see a DM being a "fan" of the Players, I see most DM alter the game reality in the players favor. The DM wants the players to have easy no effort fun, the DM wants the players to feel cool with no effort, and wants the players to "win the game".

This is exactly what this group is made for: they just stumble, bumble, trip and laugh their way around doing nothing. And that is where the DM Fan, what I call the Buddy DM, steps in to make everything right.


Right, I only have the DMs notes on this part of the adventure. I don't even have the adventure. But notes are never complete. And I don't know the players at all.

I'm sure if their DM was running it, he would have "plot armored" the plot so the players would not mess it up. I know the DM would have stopped the warlock player with a "Wait, Bob, you don't want to kill the helper guard guy. He is going to lead you guys out of the jail, yuck yuck". And then Player Bob would say "Oh, ok, thanks Buddy DM. My warlock does NOT kill the guard guy...yuck yuck yuck". I'm sure this sort of thing would happen every couple of minutes during their game.

And it's not like the DMs notes had 'side notes' saying 'don't forget to make sure the crazy, murderhobo players don't kill the guard guy'.

And I'm not a Buddy DM.

I never met such a hostile DM before. Additionally, you don't referee the game, you actively try to make it your story. I thought such behavior was a myth, I guess you have proved @EzekielRaiden correct!

 

[Vaalingrade]

Or, you know, you could ask @Oofta directly instead of making assumptions.

Because there's also

4) There are things I disallow at my table, such as rape, murdering children, torture. Those things aren't fun for me or the other players. If you do one of those things, you won't be welcome to game with us.

That's #1, who should be using useful terms to describe what they don't want in game instead of just 'evil'.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm sure if their DM was running it, he would have "plot armored" the plot so the players would not mess it up. I know the DM would have stopped the warlock player with a "Wait, Bob, you don't want to kill the helper guard guy. He is going to lead you guys out of the jail, yuck yuck". And then Player Bob would say "Oh, ok, thanks Buddy DM. My warlock does NOT kill the guard guy...yuck yuck yuck". I'm sure this sort of thing would happen every couple of minutes during their game.

And it's not like the DMs notes had 'side notes' saying 'don't forget to make sure the crazy, murderhobo players don't kill the guard guy'.

And I'm not a Buddy DM.

While it still wouldn't be a good look, this could have been stated with about 10,000% more maturity.

 

[Lanefan]

That's not what "being a fan of the characters..." means at all. Being a fan of the characters means ensuring that there is plenty of interesting stuff for the characters to do, that outcomes whether success or failure are interesting. That the PCs feel like protagonists (not necessarily heroes btw) and not the sidekicks in the story. That their actions have meaning in at least some way (rather than them just wandering around not actually affecting the state of anything at all). That sort of thing.

That all counts as being interested in the characters; and being interested in the characters is great!

Being interested is not the same as being a fan, however, as being a fan of somethng means actively supporting it and wanting it to win; hardly a position a neutral referee should be taking.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That all counts as being interested in the characters; and being interested in the characters is great!

Being interested is not the same as being a fan, however, as being a fan of somethng means actively supporting it and wanting it to win; hardly a position a neutral referee should be taking.

I'd like to direct you to so many modern fans who absolutely can't wait for characters in their media of choice to die so they can feel that media is grown up like a big boy. Because Big Boys need death to brood and be insufferable over and characters persevering through danger without dying and being horribly maimed is strictly for children, you see.

 

[Lanefan]

No one is saying you have to make things "easy" for the characters, but that you have to make things consistent, interesting and fun.

The problem is, over the years it seems "fun" and "easy" have (and continue to) become more and more synonymous in the eyes of the player base writ large.

I'm totally on board with consistent + interesting = fun. Easy is optional.

 

[bloodtide]

While it still wouldn't be a good look, this could have been stated with about 10,000% more maturity.

I'm 100% sure this is accurate as their game is a much more fun, joking type game.

I never met such a hostile DM before. Additionally, you don't referee the game, you actively try to make it your story. I thought such behavior was a myth, I guess you have proved @EzekielRaiden correct!

Do you define "hostile" as "not agreeing with you?"

Look it's a common game style: The Fun Laid Back Casual Game. Thousands of gamers love this sort of game. They laugh and carry on and maybe play a little of an RPG. Though mostly they are just getting together to hang out, relax and have fun.

And in most cases, the DM does keep things flowing so the game can "end". They will take about a year to play through "The Adventure", but they do what it to end.