D&D 5E How many feats is a 5e level worth?

[Deset Gled]

I've seen questions similar to this since 3e, and my response is always the same.

D&D simply isn't modular like this. As others have pointed out, the classes are not constant. Feats also have value that varies due to many factors (level, balance with other feats, etc). You cannot simply trade mechanics and expect the game to still fit together.

 

[greg kaye]

... If the "cost" is one level at start and is only equal to 300 or 1000 XP, then the cost is much less over the length of the campaign. Trailing behind others in the party by 300 XP at level 11 is pretty insignificant. But always being 1 level behind the "cost" is much higher.

I've really tried to address that as per the amended OP:

Per response to a comment by ad hoc below, the idea might be that, after taking the feats in lew of a level, the character would then permanently remain one level behind other characters, It would be like they'd taken a one-level dip in another class, but just for the acquisition of feats.

Otherwise, if the offer was made on repeat, a character might opt for feat/s at every stage and still not be greatly far behind characters that didn't opt for extra feats. There are 44 feats in the basic rules and phb. We might begin to run out of options.

 

[greg kaye]

... You cannot simply trade mechanics and expect the game to still fit together.

It's certainly happened that GMs have started campaigns while allowing even starting characters to have a free initial feat.
I'm postulating that it might be possible for a GM also to say that players could either start at x level or to have one of those progression levels swapped for n feats.

The game is not balanced (some classes and subclasses, races and subraces, backgrounds etc. have more in-game strength than others) and yet it fits still fits together. I'm querying another potential (and optional) variable and don't see why it couldn't fit.

As the game is unbalanced, with some builds (in of themselves) being able to progress more readily than other builds, perhaps builds that would not progress so readily might be buoyed by other options such as being able to trade levels for feats. I'd speculate that the game might even become more balanced if this option was made available.

Multiclassing is modular.

 

[NotAYakk]

ASI levels, which include 1/4th of a Prof bonus, a hit die, and often other progression, are usually considered not-great levels. More builds end at fighter 3 than at fighter 4.

So a feat is worth less than (typical 1 level) minus (1 HD, 1/4 of a Prof bonus, typical background ability progression like spellcasting). Not that much less, because sometimes grabbing that ASI is worth it.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I’m in a game where we have a second xp track just for bonus feats. We’re level 8 and have 5 bonus feats so far.

We’re obviously more powerful but the dm seems able to compensate (some fights are still tough) and I can say with confidence that bonus feats have drastically sharp downturns in value. After 3 or 4 you start digging to find feats worth getting excited about.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah... the first few feats are the IMPACT feats that you feel you need (whether it's for concept or power), then it's just... I guess I could pick up Crusher for that odd-value stat...

 

[greg kaye]

... I can say with confidence that bonus feats have drastically sharp downturns in value. After 3 or 4 you start digging to find feats worth getting excited about.

... the first few feats are the IMPACT feats that you feel you need (whether it's for concept or power), then it's just... I guess I could pick up Crusher for that odd-value stat...

Those are great thoughts and it sounds like feats, even starting with lower value when compared to level, lose value later. I guess at these stages characters might invest in ASIs and resiliences...

Perhaps the idea of trading levels for feats may be better for time-limited adventures/campaigns or with systems by which feats could be traded back for a level. For instance, a character that had previously traded a level for a couple of feats might, when reaching 3rd or 7th levels (in typical class progression) might discard one of their feats and jump to 4th or 8th level while not picking up the new levels ASI.

Lots of story justifications can be made in regard to changes in character focuses and I imagine that, in many circumstances, there could be ways in which things could fit.

 

[NotAYakk]

I’m in a game where we have a second xp track just for bonus feats. We’re level 8 and have 5 bonus feats so far.

We’re obviously more powerful but the dm seems able to compensate (some fights are still tough) and I can say with confidence that bonus feats have drastically sharp downturns in value. After 3 or 4 you start digging to find feats worth getting excited about.

Sure, but part of this is the fact that very few feats in the game are nearly as good as a +2 bonus to your primary attribute (+1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to DCs, +1 to saves, and sometimes extra riders).

There are about a dozen of them. PAM, XBE, GWM, SS, Lucky are 5 of them.

Most feats are in a completely different ballpark.

The number of feats most PCs get is limited, and the need to get 20s in primary and secondary attributes is high enough that you really don't run out.

Give someone 9 feats, and they could, especially for a given character concept.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yeah... the first few feats are the IMPACT feats that you feel you need (whether it's for concept or power), then it's just... I guess I could pick up Crusher for that odd-value stat...

Crusher and its bretheren are "My STR is 17. I could either get an ASI and drop a point in a lower stat or could get Crusher.

And I'm impressed @NotAYakk can find a dozen rather than just those five feats (or possibly those are the only ones that can be better than a +2 to a stat and there are a few like Sentinel and the Eldritch Invocation feat that are near enough that it doesn't feel actively bad. Which means by level 12 you've probably got everything important and spear-and-shield PAM fighters are often done by L8

Oddly D&Done isn't much better although there is more build variety. Fighters done by L8, rogues L10, everyone else L12. And there isn't that much more build variety.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Those are great thoughts and it sounds like feats, even starting with lower value when compared to level, lose value later. I guess at these stages characters might invest in ASIs and resiliences...

The only really important ASIs are those in your primary stat. And it's never wrong to spend your L4 and L8 feats on ASIs. Which is the boring way of doing it but power-wise unless you're a martial character or something like an illusionist (Silent Image At Will is such a good thing for a specialist illusionist) it's almost always the best choice. Dex, Wis, and Con (and their associated saves) are almost always useful with the other three saves being a lot less important - and every single class (sit down L14 monk) is proficient in one high priority save and one low priority save.