D&D (2024) Jeremy Crawford: “We are releasing new editions of the books”

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it also stops interchangeability of adventures. With 5e and 1D&D you can use adventures of either version with either core. With a jump from 3e to 4e you cannot - and if there is no jump and all you do is change the label to 5.5 while 1D&D otherwise stays the same, then that is horrible marketing.

What? No, what stops the interchangeability of adventures is mechanical differences, not a little number. 1D&D doesn't need to change everything to fix a bunch of problems, and it can still stay relatively compatible to the adventures that came before. The important thing would be to change the player-facing things, of which there is significantly less content (Basically 3 big books: PHB, Xanathar's, and Tasha's) while keeping things close enough that you can use all the old adventure stuff.

Also if you just change the label, that's not bad marketing as much as adding to clarity and making for a more defined product. In not making that jump, you are just creating a situation where you're going to have two versions of most things and you're going to have to hash out everything anyways. It's just going to make for a whole bunch of confusion as people are going to want to find what they want from each book rather than actually being forced to use what might be nerfed but ultimately better balanced in 2024.

WotC is really in a no win situation here. The term edition has been so misused so much by D&D over the years, that it has no actual meaning. No mater how they use it, there will inevitably be people who claim they are using it wrong.

I really think that their plan of dropping edition numbers is the best one. It undercuts most of the edition talk by just claiming there are no editions anymore, its all just "evergreen" D&D.

I'd argue the opposite, that basically putting a bunch of newly-balanced stuff into the pool without cleaning out the old stuff is just going to create a great confusing kludge, where certain people will argue about which classes to use from which editions and what have you. To me, the freakout over "edition" is largely on WotC for not saying "Well, we're changing things and we think we'll be better for it" and instead saying "You can just use whatever you like!"
 

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What? No, what stops the interchangeability of adventures is mechanical differences, not a little number.
isn’t that what you were advocating for when you wrote ‘The only thing is that you can stop people from mixing things and can properly balance things if you push to a new edition/version’?

If all you were talking about were a label, then nothing would change anyway, invalidating the whole point.

1D&D doesn't need to change everything to fix a bunch of problems, and it can still stay relatively compatible to the adventures that came before.
it is…

Also if you just change the label, that's not bad marketing as much as adding to clarity and making for a more defined product.
no, it’s bad marketing as it implies incompatibility based on how that was used in the past
 

Also if you just change the label, that's not bad marketing as much as adding to clarity and making for a more defined product. In not making that jump, you are just creating a situation where you're going to have two versions of most things and you're going to have to hash out everything anyways. It's just going to make for a whole bunch of confusion as people are going to want to find what they want from each book rather than actually being forced to use what might be nerfed but ultimately better balanced in 2024.

I'd argue the opposite, that basically putting a bunch of newly-balanced stuff into the pool without cleaning out the old stuff is just going to create a great confusing kludge, where certain people will argue about which classes to use from which editions and what have you. To me, the freakout over "edition" is largely on WotC for not saying "Well, we're changing things and we think we'll be better for it" and instead saying "You can just use whatever you like!"
That just isn't how most players play D&D, especially new players. That may be how a lot of us hardcore players, who hang out here discussing D&D for hours every day may play. The overwhelming majority of players just don't care about min-maxing and optimizing there character. Most players just page through whatever book they have and just pick something that look fun.

Again, the most popular subclass is the Champion Fighter. If that doesn't show that people here are not on the same page as most plyers, I don't know what would.

The thing is WotC is saying "You can use whatever you like", and "We are changing things and we think we'll be better for it". Over and over they have been saying if you like the current 5e and don't want to switch, you can still us 5e, all of the new adventures will still work. I see it more as rather than WotC not say that, they are, and people just refuse to believe them.
 

isn’t that what you were advocating for when you wrote ‘ The only thing is that you can stop people from mixing things and can properly balance things if you push to a new edition/version’?

If all you were talking about were a label, then nothing would change anyway, invalidating the whole point.

No, there's a difference between a PHB and an Adventure. The PHB contains mechanics, adventures are implementations of those. They're not quite the same. Adventures typically are easier to transfer over, and I think you can maintain a decent level of compatibility with those compared to actual books carrying rules, like the PHB.

Basically the big thing here would be that your adventures still will work if you use them, what won't work are your PHB and such because they are changing what the classes are. The problem is not with adventures (Which would likely transfer over pretty easily) as much as not wanting to mix PHBs because that is where you are going to create all the confusion. Is that more clear?


... but the problem is that they aren't moving away from the 2014 PHB, which suddenly introduces the problem where have competing classes that are not balanced the same way. The new druid is not going to be the old druid, and it's difficult to see the new druid taking hold if people can just choose the old one to avoid any balancing nerfs that might be placed on it.

no, it’s bad marketing as it implies incompatibility based on how that was used in the past

No, you just say "These rules will work with the adventures we've made in the past, they just won't work with player-facing materials". Again, if everyone is going to just buy the new rules anyways and are basically going to toss the old rules by the wayside (which seems to be one of the big assumptions here), then formalizing it as a new edition basically changes nothing.

That just isn't how most players play D&D, especially new players. That may be how a lot of us hardcore players, who hang out here discussing D&D for hours every day may play. The overwhelming majority of players just don't care about min-maxing and optimizing there character. Most players just page through whatever book they have and just pick something that look fun.

Do you know that? I don't think you understand that min-maxing isn't just a D&D thing, but a gaming thing in general. Plenty of people look for the best stuff when they come into a new game, especially this sort of thing. Kids absolutely look through the internet to figure things out and see what works: I know, I teach them and I listen to them. They absolutely look up guides, videos, etc, on what works and get what you want. They will figure out if there is a better version of the Warlock out there pretty quick.

More than that, just playing a bit and finding out that there is a better version of your class out there somewhere will get enough of them. Once you start interacting with the community, they'll find out that there are older, "better" versions of things out there.

Again, the most popular subclass is the Champion Fighter. If that doesn't show that people here are not on the same page as most plyers, I don't know what would.

How much of that is for quickness of build, though? I need a spare character, I can put together Human Fighter on the spot. Like, are we not going to say that the Fighter needs a ton of improvements because apparently it's the most popular class? How could it be bad if so many people play it? ;)

The thing is WotC is saying "You can use whatever you like", and "We are changing things and we think we'll be better for it". Over and over they have been saying if you like the current 5e and don't want to switch, you can still us 5e, all of the new adventures will still work. I see it more as rather than WotC not say that, they are, and people just refuse to believe them.

Saying "You can use whatever you like" is the problem, because it can basically nullify the second part. The easier thing to do would be to say "We are changing things for the better, your adventures will still work and we think you'll be more satisfied with the experience we create after using 10 years of data to address things" because it doesn't let people reach back to the things they are trying to move away from. It's honest and you don't have to worry about people bringing back old classes not built to be in their new version of the game.
 

The only edition change that was motivated . . . in part . . . to cut somebody out of the rewards was AD&D 1st Edition. TSR, under Gary, thought adding the "Advanced" to the name of the game would allow them to stop paying Arneson royalties. That wasn't resolved until WotC took over the game.

We would have gotten that version of the game anyway, it just might not have been called "Advanced" if it wasn't for the beef between Gygax and Arneson. I've always wondered if the split between B/X and AD&D would have been a thing otherwise . . . .
2nd edition was also created to stop paying royalties to Gygax.

I am sure that there would never have been an AD&D if it wasn't for the royalties. It would have been a lot better for the health of the game if they never had an AD&D. I think there is a pretty good chance TSR would have never gone bankrupt in the first place if they had never spit there audience by simultaneously publishing 2 different games. No guaranties though, TSR was remarkably poorly run. I can't be sure they wouldn't have found another way to crash the company.
 

I think the marketing folks at WOTC are going to ultimately push some different parlance other than the "2024 Players Handbook" at some point down the line, right now it sounds like a shiny new model car about to come out, especially when compared with the "2014 Players Handlbook," but they know that "2024" is not going to sound so hot in 2028. That is probably how we end up with some tongue-twister like the "50th Anniversary Players Handbook." Of course this would be where a normal company would say "50th Anniversary Edition" even if they were an automaker in the US, but they are so afraid of broaching that subject right now. Although they could just keep saying "it is a new edition of the books, not the game" in support of calling a new edition rather than from the other side like they are now.
 

I think the marketing folks at WOTC are going to ultimately push some different parlance other than the "2024 Players Handbook" at some point down the line, right now it sounds like a shiny new model car about to come out, especially when compared with the "2014 Players Handlbook," but they know that "2024" is not going to sound so hot in 2028. That is probably how we end up with some tongue-twister like the "50th Anniversary Players Handbook." Of course this would be where a normal company would say "50th Anniversary Edition" even if they were an automaker in the US, but they are so afraid of broaching that subject right now. Although they could just keep saying "it is a new edition of the books, not the game" in support of calling a new edition rather than from the other side like they are now.

You know, I hadn't even thought of what they are actually going to call the book. Would it just be PHB with a different cover? The "Essential" PHB? I think people were pushing back on "Advanced" recently... Maybe they reach back to their Star Wars memories and go Revised Core? :P
 



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