D&D (2024) Jeremy Crawford: “We are releasing new editions of the books”

[mamba]

No, there's a difference between a PHB and an Adventure. The PHB contains mechanics, adventures are implementations of those.

I understand that. So let me rephrase that… how do you keep people from mixing things if you do not introduce incompatibilities? How do you limit your incompatibilities to the PHB side, so adventures are unaffected (ie they can be used as is, not after a conversion)?

No, you just say "These rules will work with the adventures we've made in the past, they just won't work with player-facing materials". Again, if everyone is going to just buy the new rules anyways and are basically going to toss the old rules by the wayside (which seems to be one of the big assumptions here), then formalizing it as a new edition basically changes nothing.

that the old rules get tossed and everyone moves to 1D&D is not my assumption.

Some will stick with 5e, some will mix, some will move entirely to 1D&D, some will start with it. They all can play the same adventures.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I understand that. So let me rephrase that… how do you keep people from mixing things if you do not introduce incompatibilities? How do you limit your incompatibilities to the PHB side, so adventures are unaffected?

I mean, it feels like that's what they were already doing? The class changes they were making don't affect the adventures because the adventures aren't really built around specific classes being able to do specific stuff. NPCs don't use classes, either, so there's no problem with that transition. The most change you might get is rebalancing of creatures that don't have stats specifically spelled out in the adventure but pointing to an MM reference page, but the only way that would change adventures is if you significantly changed their CR in some way which... well, I don't see happening.

Like, the way they've built this thing doesn't feel like adventures would be changed at all. If they said this was 5.5E and kept doing what they are doing, I don't know what wouldn't be compatible when it comes to their APs. I'm not as up on them as some people, but nothing immediately springs to mind for me.

 

[codo]

They're just going to call the book itself "Dungeons & Dragons"? No title or name?

... I mean, actually, I kind think the forwardness of that works.

The will call them the PHB, MM, and DMG, just like always, but I the Wizards is actually serious about being evergreen and no new editions. There may be a banner on the cover saying 50th anniversary or something on it, but the official name for the "edition" will still just be Dungeons and Dragons.

It really is the cleanest and least confusing name for new players. Listing an edition number on the cover can lead to questions and second guessing if players got the right book.

I know there are people here who say it will cause confusions and problems among existing players, but I really don't think that is a big deal. If you are already a D&D player you know that they are coming out with new books, and aren't going to be confused by them.

 

[Justice and Rule]

It really is the cleanest and least confusing name for new players. Listing an edition number on the cover can lead to questions and second guessing if players got the right book.

I'm sorry, but having an edition number immediately tells you what you get. Just having a new PHB with the same classes but different from the other PHB that also contains the same classes is way more confusing than something that says "Oh, this is from a different edition". Like, one way or another you're going to have to denote the difference between the old and the new. If not an edition number, it'll be a picture, a color, something. At least with an edition number it's up front about what you are getting.

 

[codo]

I'm sorry, but having an edition number immediately tells you what you get. Just having a new PHB with the same classes but different from the other PHB that also contains the same classes is way more confusing than something that says "Oh, this is from a different edition". Like, one way or another you're going to have to denote the difference between the old and the new. If not an edition number, it'll be a picture, a color, something. At least with an edition number it's up front about what you are getting.

Who exactly is it confusing for. If you are a new players, who has never played before, you just buy the book they have at target or amazon.
If you are an existing player, you should be aware that a new revision is coming out, and you aren't going to be confused by them.

 

[mamba]

I mean, it feels like that's what they were already doing?

I guess then we drastically disagree about how incompatible the two PHBs are

I agree on the adventure side, I just don’t see the PHBs being so incompatible that you can only use 2014 or 2024, not both together

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'm sorry, but having an edition number immediately tells you what you get. Just having a new PHB with the same classes but different from the other PHB that also contains the same classes is way more confusing than something that says "Oh, this is from a different edition". Like, one way or another you're going to have to denote the difference between the old and the new. If not an edition number, it'll be a picture, a color, something. At least with an edition number it's up front about what you are getting.

But calling it 5.5 or another edition is not telling you what you get. It's not a new edition of the game. It is not a clean break.

I predict that the 2024 PH will likely just say Player's Handbook on the cover, and on the back cover likely have a blurb providing a clarifying statement that it is an updated revision celebrating the anniversary of the game, like the 2014 PH says that it is for the fifth edition of the game.

The physical way to differentiate it is that the cover is going to have completely different art.
The way they will differentiate it in text, like on a list, will have the year designation, like "Player's Handbook (2024)"

The 2014 Core books will stop being printed, (maybe they stopped printing already), and dwindle away out of the market over time, bought by people who decide they would rather stick with the 2014 rules. There will come a time where people can only buy the 2014 books, used.

The 2024 books will become the new norm. And some people will still complain, and new players who enjoy the new books won't "get it" because they cut their teeth on the 2024 books and love them as the books of their generation... just like many here have fond memories of their favorite early edition.

IMHO.

 

[Parmandur]

They are factoring it in, but I really think the WotC (and me as well), thinks that most groups aren't going to play with both at once. That is just not the way most 5e players play the game. Those of us on the forums are the most hardcore of the hardcore players. We really are not a accurate sample of the average D&D players.

The vast majority of players never think about the game between sesions. They sit down with what every books they have and just pick a character that sounds fun to them, and them play them. The truth is that most players never give the game even 1% of the attention we do.

For the vast majority of D&D players their hobby is playing D&D, not thinking about, analyzing, and discussing D&D, like those of us here do.
Just to point out how out of touch with the average player some of us are, the most popular Sub-class, of the most popular class is the Champion.

My expertise that people mix and match: designing it to be casual and painless to do so is pro-conauker, and plenty of people will do it.

 

[Parmandur]

I think the marketing folks at WOTC are going to ultimately push some different parlance other than the "2024 Players Handbook" at some point down the line, right now it sounds like a shiny new model car about to come out, especially when compared with the "2014 Players Handlbook," but they know that "2024" is not going to sound so hot in 2028. That is probably how we end up with some tongue-twister like the "50th Anniversary Players Handbook." Of course this would be where a normal company would say "50th Anniversary Edition" even if they were an automaker in the US, but they are so afraid of broaching that subject right now. Although they could just keep saying "it is a new edition of the books, not the game" in support of calling a new edition rather than from the other side like they are now.

Actually, I'd wager that "Player's Handbook (2024)" branding I'd already marketing approved, and what we will see. The, next time they do a backwards compatible revision, they can just call it "Player's Handbook (2034)" or what not.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Who exactly is it confusing for. If you are a new players, who has never played before, you just buy the book they have at target or amazon.
If you are an existing player, you should be aware that a new revision is coming out, and you aren't going to be confused by them.

Dude, people buy stuff second hand and it's not like there won't be stock of these PHBs out there. They might borrow an old PHB from someone they know plays the game because you're just saying the 5E Player's Handbook. The idea that "New players will just buy the new one" misses that these are effectively called the same thing and only older players will know. If you are new and try to buy one cheap, second-hand, or simply borrow it, you'll be getting something that is not the same as the older one.

And I don't see how that's any less confusing than putting a "5.5E" on it. If you're new, you're just buying the one off Amazon, right? If you're an older player, of course you know what you're getting. As an argument for clarity, it is a terrible one.

I guess then we drastically disagree about how incompatible the two PHBs are

Given that the Warlock is drastically different, there's huge debate on how to implement Wildshape, and other such things (Oh God, Weapon Masteries and 2014 Martials , new Martials and old feats...), I'm not sure how you can't create some real disruption within the community itself if you allow both books to be used. I don't see how you can nerf some classes and expect the older versions not to get used without a GM just saying "No".

But calling it 5.5 or another edition is not telling you what you get. It's not a new edition of the game. It is not a clean break.

It tells you you have the most recent revision of the rules, which is more than just calling the new book the same thing and hoping that the market will clear things up.

I predict that the 2024 PH will likely just say Player's Handbook on the cover, and on the back cover likely have a blurb providing a clarifying statement that it is an updated revision celebrating the anniversary of the game, like the 2014 PH says that it is for the fifth edition of the game.

The physical way to differentiate it is that the cover is going to have completely different art.
The way they will differentiate it in text, like on a list, will have the year designation, like "Player's Handbook (2024)"

The 2014 Core books will stop being printed, (maybe they stopped printing already), and dwindle away out of the market over time, bought by people who decide they would rather stick with the 2014 rules. There will come a time where people can only buy the 2014 books, used.

The 2024 books will become the new norm. And some people will still complain, and new players who enjoy the new books won't "get it" because they cut their teeth on the 2024 books and love them as the books of their generation... just like many here have fond memories of their favorite early edition.

IMHO.

I mean, if we are going to rely on those cues, that's just an edition change without the number. What the number does is make clear this is something different from the original.

At the very least, this does not create clarity. You're just going to have 5E Fire Giant versus 5E Beholder (or whatever they put on the cover... eh, let's be honest, it's probably going to be a Red Dragon ), which is going be a more exclusive, opaque nomenclature compared to just saying 5.5E or "Revised" or whatever.