D&D 5E Do you let PC's just *break* objects?

[Swarmkeeper]

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion. Getting a free pass on disabling a trap because you come up with a cool description of how you do it is persuading the DM that your approach is guaranteed to work. In my opinion, of course.

That's a fine opinion. One I share. Cool descriptions do not get free passes at our table.

"Persuading the DM" does not represent our playstyle, however. That seems to be what you keep insisting on - and what I have issue with. Please stop.

Stop calling me a liar.

Um... I didn't. I'm simply correcting your erroneous assumption about our playstyle.

 

[Oofta]

That's a fine opinion. One I share. Cool descriptions do not get free passes at our table.

It does not represent our playstyle, however. That seems to be what you keep insisting on - and what I have issue with. Please stop.


Um... I didn't. I'm simply correcting your erroneous assumption about our playstyle.

By correcting you mean saying that I misrepresent my opinion. Because I always try to be careful about this - that it's just my feeling, my opinion, my impression. Maybe I forget to clarify now and then. But my opinion - which you stated you suspected was not honest - is that it's persuading the DM.

EDIT: I don't see how I can read the following (bold added) as anything other than calling me a liar. It is my interpretation of how it actually works.

You are missing a greater context: It's been years of telling that poster that their characterization of our playstyle is wrong. I personally find it hard to swallow that it is an "honest interpretation" at this point.

 

[Charlaquin]

If they had come up with what you considered a terrible idea of how to disarm the trap then it would have automatically failed or perhaps a roll with a higher DC, correct?

If they had tried something that would have no logical way of resulting in the trap being disarmed (in my experience this is extremely rare!) it might have failed without a roll. If they had tried something that seemed like it could result in disarming the trap, but also involved an element of risk, I would have called for a check, and set the DC based on my (yes, subjective) evaluation of the difficulty of avoiding that risk. But “how cool the description is” isn’t relevant. The logic of the fiction is what I base my evaluation on.

 

[greg kaye]

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion. Getting a free pass on disabling a trap because you come up with a cool description of how you do it is persuading the DM that your approach is guaranteed to work, that you've removed all uncertainty. In my opinion, of course.

Stop calling me a liar.

If I've got the reference right, I think we'd need to clarify if further situations could be categorized as "free pass" or "earned".

...
One time I had a player declare that she wanted to check a door for traps. I responded “I’m hearing that you want to find out if the door is trapped; what does your character do to try and find that out?” She initially said “something my character who’s trained in perception and investigation would think of that I can’t?” to which I said, “I understand you’re not an expert in trapfinding; neither am I. I just need to know what your character is doing in the world of the game so I can determine if it could succeed, if it could fail, and if there are any potential consequences for failing. Just go with something that seems reasonable to you, and I will do my best to interpret that generously.” She said she gave the door and the seams around it a thorough visual inspection, and I determined that this would have a chance of resulting in her seeing through the seam at the top that there was a lever, which would trigger a bell to ring when the door opened. I called for a check, she passed, and saw the lever. The party then went on to try to disarm this trap by wedging something (I no longer remember what, maybe it was a dagger or something) through the seam to hold the lever in place while they opened the door, which I determined would succeed without need of a roll. From that point on, the player in this exchange has consistently been one of the most creative players at my table when it comes to coming up with novel approaches to actions that often result in her succeeding at things without needing to roll.

 

[Oofta]

If they had tried something that would have no logical way of resulting in the trap being disarmed (in my experience this is extremely rare!) it might have failed without a roll. If they had tried something that seemed like it could result in disarming the trap, but also involved an element of risk, I would have called for a check, and set the DC based on my (yes, subjective) evaluation of the difficulty of avoiding that risk. But “how cool the description is” isn’t relevant. The logic of the fiction is what I base my evaluation on.

I never said anything about descriptions being "cool". I said persuasive. The player has convinced the DM that their actions are guaranteed to disable the trap.

Without that persuasion step (whether that step is logic, charm, promises of free pizza, or any other method) the only way to avoid making a check to disable the trap it is to not go through the door.

That doesn't make this style right or wrong, it's even covered in the DMG under Role of the Dice.

Although come to think of it, promise of free pizza might work on me depending on how hungry I am.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

By correcting you mean saying that I misrepresent my opinion. Because I always try to be careful about this - that it's just my feeling, my opinion, my impression. Maybe I forget to clarify now and then. But my opinion - which you stated you suspected was not honest - is that it's persuading the DM.

EDIT: I don't see how I can read the following (bold added) as anything other than calling me a liar. It is my interpretation of how it actually works.

So let's review:

You misrepresent our playstyle.
I say that it is wrong to do so.
You claim it's ok because "it's like my opinion man".
And somehow I'm the bad guy here?

We're done here. I'll leave it to those with more patience to respond to you, if they wish.

 

[greg kaye]

I never said anything about descriptions being "cool". I said persuasive. The player has convinced the DM that their actions are guaranteed to disable the trap.

Without that persuasion step (whether that step is logic, charm, promises of free pizza, or any other method) the only way to avoid making a check to disable the trap it is to not go through the door.

That doesn't make this style right or wrong, it's even covered in the DMG under Role of the Dice.

Although come to think of it, promise of free pizza might work on me depending on how hungry I am.

at this later stage you mention:

I'm not misrepresenting my opinion. Getting a free pass on disabling a trap because you come up with a cool description of how you do it is persuading the DM that your approach is guaranteed to work, that you've removed all uncertainty. In my opinion, of course.

Stop calling me a liar.

 

[Oofta]

If I've got the reference right, I think we'd need to clarify if further situations could be categorized as "free pass" or "earned".

Only getting a check in the first place because they gave a description is just a bit off-putting to me if it's always required or required on a regular basis. I encourage people to give descriptions now and then, I nudge them towards being descriptive. But I only nudge. If they don't feel comfortable with it or look like they're getting frustrated I drop it. I may say something like "Would you like to describe how you look for the trap?"

As far as coming up with a logical way to disable a trap, I find that interesting fluff and as I just said something I encourage people do now and then if they want. But in the example given the player convinced the DM that the approach would work with no chance of failure.

at this later stage you mention:

Bad choice of words. Sorry.

 

[Charlaquin]

I never said anything about descriptions being "cool". I said persuasive.

You literally did say cool.

Getting a free pass on disabling a trap because you come up with a cool description of how you do it is persuading the DM that your approach is guaranteed to work,

That’s a direct quote.

 

[Oofta]

You literally did say cool.

That’s a direct quote.

Yep. I apologize. Poor choice of words on my part.