D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Chaosmancer]

I guess that's part of it. I've never seen a level 20 fighter in +2 plate. Seems silly if the wizard can cast wish that the fighter has such terrible magic items.

Armor +2 is one step below legendary. How is that terrible? Are all non-legendary items trash?

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

For the record so I can cut and paste in future threads on this, here's the arguments I hear against the mythic martials,

Assumptions--
no changes to spellcasting/spellcasters,
mythic martial will be a separate, new class
this mythic martial will be no more versatile and powerful than the current wizard,
all existing classes will still exist

"I don't want that kind of gonzo stuff in my D&D" -- retort: already there with the high level Wizard which is more versatile, reliable, and powerful than most fantasy figures. Its existing indicates high level D&D is gonzo/mythic land

"If you put this in, no one will play the current martials anymore" -- retort: ok, then we've found out what people really want to play and/or time to buff those classes as well

"This will make a broken high level game even more broken" -- retort: impossible. You can already play an all-caster party. And the mythic martial is no more broken than the Wizard. So same.

"If you put a class in that would add to the fun and enjoyment of a bunch of people but I don't like, it will ruin the game for me even if I don't have to use this class and it doesn't take away my current options which are just as powerful." -- retort: you are a bad community member trying to gate other people's fun.

"I don't want this in the core book" -- retort: fine. put it in a splat. I don't think this is a big issue for most mythic martial supporters

"You can't do these things without magic." retort: magic as in "fantasy" sure. The world is magical and fantastical so yes this is why the mythic martial can do things a normal earth human can't. These are not mundane heroes at high level. They have some origin that gives permission, with one option being you don't know. The specific type of D&D spellcasting doesn't need to be a part of it though (although you can use some of those mechanics if you want in design)

"You can't use X, Y mechanics in building the mythic martial so might as well use half casters. All limited use or narrative control abilities are spells anyway" retort: convention only. free your mind

"Making this class would be a lot of work and I'd rather design time spent on more adventures, another spellcaster class, etc." -- Retort: Somewhat valid but this would be a major gap filled for a segment of people and really make their day, so be nice and throw them a bone?

Others?

 

[CreamCloud0]

so what's the difference between having a magic helm of teleportation that let's you cast it 3 times a day vs being able to cast it three times a day. I see no difference. Are navy seals weenies because they have the best toys on earth? I get no logic from your statement.

But by your argument my mage should be able to melee the dragon to death as well otherwise he's not viable.......

Thw difference is you can take that helm and give it to the caster who can now teleport 6 times a day or teleport 3 times and spend their 3 slots on doing other things while you can’t give those slots over to the fighter, the caster can’t have their spell slots lost or stolen or already be attuned to 3 other spell slots and be unable to use the 4th one.

 

[Emberashh]

retort: impossible. You can already play an all-caster party. And the mythic martial is no more broken than the Wizard. So same.

Re-retort: all caster parties illustrate exactly why its a bad idea.

 

[TwoSix]

Re-retort: all caster parties illustrate exactly why its a bad idea.

What's wrong with all-caster parties?

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Re-retort: all caster parties illustrate exactly why its a bad idea.

see the assumptions. reigning in casters is off the table in this exercise. so why not give martials some high level craziness as well? all-caster parties is not a design issue but player choice.

Again, I'm with you and would rather see the complete overhaul. But for now, put in the mythic martial.

 

[HammerMan]

I guess that's part of it. I've never seen a level 20 fighter in +2 plate. Seems silly if the wizard can cast wish that the fighter has such terrible magic items.

Wait +2 of the best armor in the game is bad?!?

 

[Emberashh]

What's wrong with all-caster parties?

Having practically unlimited amounts of "turn-off-these-mechanics" buttons is not very cash money.

I can deal with lots of big booms. I like big booms.

I don't like every mechanic being turned off instantly, negating the point of bothering.

 

[Emberashh]

see the assumptions. reigning in casters is off the table in this exercise. so why not give martials some high level craziness as well? all-caster parties is not a design issue but player choice.

Again, I'm with you and would rather see the complete overhaul. But for now, put in the mythic martial.

If we're taking that assumption we have to also assume no mythic martial. The same fundamental reason mages aren't going to get reigned in is the same one that keeps Martials from going in the same direction.

I did after all predict perfectly that they were going to buff Wizards, and the most we're likely to get is just a non-committal to the buff.

 

[Gammadoodler]

If we're taking that assumption we have to also assume no mythic martial. The same fundamental reason mages aren't going to get reigned in is the same one that keeps Martials from going in the same direction.

I did after all predict perfectly that they were going to buff Wizards, and the most we're likely to get is just a non-committal to the buff.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion from these assumptions..

Assumptions--
no changes to spellcasting/spellcasters,
mythic martial will be a separate, new class
this mythic martial will be no more versatile and powerful than the current wizard,
all existing classes will still exist