D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Scott Christian]

So, what's the argument for not including it? What's the argument for "ruining the game" with the inclusion of a class that is not more powerful or versatile than current classes, you don't need to use, and will bring fun to a segment of players?

There are zero arguments against a new class that is not as powerful. That is my point. It is never about not as powerful. It is always about more powerful. The ability to take without conceding. Here are a few examples:

• Racial ASIs: I want to place my plusses anywhere because I must start with a 16, not a 15. I know I get the benefit of all these other cool racial feats, but I want both. Hence, more powerful than the original PHB intended.
• I don't like that my ranger can do all these cool things, but does 1.2 less damage per round than the fighter. The fix, ranger does all these cool things and is now stronger than the fighter, doing 2.3 more damage per round. Hence, more powerful than the original PHB.
• I want to be able to fly at first level. Even though the intentions of the designers were clear and specific - flying is a powerful tool reserved until a wizard reaches fifth level. When they wrote the PHB, they adjusted it so it would come later. The fix, the wizard can now fly at first level.

Heck, even right now people are arguing for being able to mix and match racial feats. There is no story behind this. It's all because they want to pick the best ones for their class. As I said, half the debates on here are because people want expanded powers - not to "tell their character's story," but to have something more powerful. For we all know, flavor wise, you can tell any story you want without making your character stronger. Yet, suspiciously, every debate just so happens to make characters stronger.

So the argument against a class that is the same power. There isn't one. The problem is - that is never the real argument.

If there were easier ways to raise ASI's and still get feats which are VITAL to giving martials options, then this could work, but you have to redesign how ASIs work in totality.

To prove my point.

 

[Gorck]

If you truly need something though.

"When enough force (heh) is applied, weapon attacks collect handwavium particles along their striking surface which can disrupt the imaginarium tethers which bind force constructs together"

Do old school damage reduction or something.

Ezpz

But none of that works unless you have a high enough midiclorian count

 

[Yaarel]

But none of that works unless you have a high enough midiclorian count

See, "midiclorian" is an example of an unsatisfying narrative that can potentially ruin the movie.

I am glad most of the Star Wars movies downplay it or even ignore it.

 

[Gammadoodler]

But none of that works unless you have a high enough midiclorian count

Missed opportunity..next time.

 

[Gammadoodler]

3e, 4e, and 5e are moving toward a theory of magic.

The "Weave" is a property inherent within existence itself. An antimagic area actually displaces the Weave, producing a void within the Weave.

The magic sources are different methods for producing magic: Arcane, Divine, Primal, Psionic, and perhaps Martial magic.

Arcane and Divine are different ways of interacting with the "Weave".

If I recall correctly, 3e views the Psionic method to rely on the personal Weave that forms as an aura around a mindful person. It seems to me that Primal works similarly among the minds of the beings of nature.

Ok. Cool. And what, specific narratively appropriate, actions do they do to the Weave to make their Wall of Maybe it's Gravity..Maybe it's Maybelline?

 

[Chaosmancer]

i mean...you could also learn pathfinder to play it

True, but I'm hesitant. Someone convinced me to try a gestalt 1st edition pathfinder game. I had to ask for help to just do character creation. It was a lot and I don't have the brain space for it.

I've heard 2nd edition is easier to digest, but it is a matter of degrees.

 

[Yaarel]

Ok. Cool. And what, specific narratively appropriate, actions do they do to the Weave to make their Wall of Maybe it's Gravity..Maybe it's Maybelline?

The Weave pervades all existence and is itself psychoresponsive to the intentions of sentient minds.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Needlessly sarcastic. I'm not against the mythic martial.

So no, there isn't anything wrong with the multiple explanations for martial power that allows them to do extraordinary feats beyond human limits. Therefore, the next time someone demands to know how we justify it, we can just tell them to go back and read any of the many examples we've given. Bonus points, none of them are exclusive and it can be all of them at once.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The Weave pervades all existence and is itself psychoresponsive to the intentions of sentient minds.

Cool. This doesnt actually answer ny question, but lets go with it. Swords can cut that or something.

Seriously. It's all BS. You just have to apply enough of it wherever needed to get the mechanical effect desired.

 

[CreamCloud0]

See, "midiclorian" is an example of an unsatisfying narrative that can potentially ruin the movie.

I am glad most of the Star Wars movies downplay it or even ignore it.

so you're saying you'd rather there be no explaination how they could do it and that the jedi could just do force stuff because that's what jedi do? kinda how we want the fighter to just be able to do amazing fightery things because that's what fighters do???