D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Incenjucar]

and unless it's a large enough group of people the only real option is 3rd party or table rules. which seems to be unacceptable to most people who complain about it. Not sure why.

I already said I'll do it in 2024. I have a day job and am already working on another class that fills a need that WotC isn't filling.

 

[Yaarel]

It's either not as borked as you think or people like borked classes.

Since the borkness happens during the high tiers, most players dont reach the levels to recognize that it is borked.

Meanwhile, those who reach the higher tiers are both the ones complaining here in this thread and the ones that are able to fix it at their own table.

 

[Emberashh]

that Psionic is magic.

 

[nevin]

Since the borkness happens during the high tiers, most players dont reach the levels to recognize that it is borked.

Meanwhile, those who reach the higher tiers are both the ones complaining here in this thread and the ones that are able to fix it at their own table.

IME it's almost alway DM's' complaining about these things. Players generally just have fun tromping around as near demigods.

 

[Yaarel]

IME it's almost alway DM's' complaining about these things. Players generally just have fun tromping around as near demigods.

Hmmm. Fair enough.

But in the case of the Fighter, there are many Fighter players, who get frustrated when trapped in a Forcecage or unable to get past a magical challenge. So there probably is more pain points that WotC is aware of.

 

[nevin]

probably just as many that get eaten by dragons. Do we make them invulnerable?

 

[Incenjucar]

It's pretty normal for inequity to be more discernable by those with a more complete and scrutinizing view of a system and the fudging that is required to keep an experience smooth and enjoyable.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Hmmm, a lot of that sounds really interesting. I'm loathe to try and learn pathfinder just to steal ideas though

It has it's flaws but I think it's definitely worth learning and playing a bit even if you don't end up using it as your main system. It has a lot of neat ideas, some of which aren't immediately evident on a read. Some things:

1) three action economy -- besides 3rd action to do something useful mentioned it also makes movement important. You can move away from a big monster and although the monster can often move to reach you next turn, they can't do their big three action attack anymore. Opportunity attacks exist but only a subset of monsters have them.

2) most of the class power is baked into the class itself and can't be traded away. Lots of customization but the swapable abilities and customization tend to add breadth vs. more power

3) There are different recharge mechanisms but seems less detrimental. Would have to think about why this is.

I think it would somewhat satisfy the "I want my Fighter to be a little better relatively" crowd. It doesn't really put them on par with spellcasters at higher level but there are a few ways to give them some added utility -- medicine revival, etc.

5e Spellcasters may or may not be happy, especially at lower levels as support is the most effective use of spells then.

It's a bit daunting to initially dig into but the system has a lot of key words, standardization, etc. so once you spend a little time it is easier to understand new things and pretty easy to play.

 

[Scott Christian]

Since the borkness happens during the high tiers, most players dont reach the levels to recognize that it is borked.

Meanwhile, those who reach the higher tiers are both the ones complaining here in this thread and the ones that are able to fix it at their own table.

I reached level 20 as a champion. A year long campaign. We played every level. We had 8 players and a DM. I noticed no difference in my PC's ability to do cool stuff compared to the warlock, cleric, ranger, monk, wizard, or 2 druids. So, not everyone that reaches higher levels is complaining.
But it is a problem at your table. Can I ask what level you noticed it and what was the party composition?

 

[nevin]

you'll never have a system where fudging isn't necessary to have a smooth enjoyable experience in an RPG . the whole point of RPG is you can do anything and the DM has to adjust for it. hell MMO's can't even provide a smooth enjoyable experience. they are constantly playing whack a mole trying to make an 'equitable" experience when no one agrees on what "equitable " is.
to get that system you have to take away what made it so popular in the first place. Flexibility. If you have a rule for everything to make everything fair then it's only fair for the 5 developers that made it and almost everyone else on earth will tell them how thier view of fair is wrong. Fair, equitable, and balances are very much a perceptions instead of states.