D&D (2024) Monks Are Not Tanks And Shouldn’t Be

[CreamCloud0]

aren't PCs supposedly meant to be leaving 'mortal limits' behind by level 10 or something anyway? i'd be expecting level 10's to already of reached being 'master' monks to keep going up from there as they continue.

 

[Charlaquin]

aren't PCs supposedly meant to be leaving 'mortal limits' behind by level 10 or something anyway? i'd be expecting level 10's to already of reached being 'master' monks to keep going up from there as they continue.

Nah, only spellcasters get to leave mortal limits behind. You can’t break mortal limits without magic, silly!

 

[WanderingMystic]

The problem is that the abilities you are describing do not match with what everyone else can do at lower levels. So your tier 2(lvl 5-10) is everyone else's lvl 3-6, that is the problem. Your tier 4 monk concept is on par with a tier 3 everyone else.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Nah, only spellcasters get to leave mortal limits behind. You can’t break mortal limits without magic, silly!

Ki or Di as it is known now is magic just by another name, but you know that.

 

[Charlaquin]

Ki or Di as it is known now is magic just by another name, but you know that.

Yeah, I was engaging in a bit of rhetorical irony there.

 

[mellored]

Ki or Di as it is known now is magic just by another name, but you know that.

I still prefer focus.

 

[Clint_L]

It does.

The issue with D&D monks is like I said before, the path is chosen by the designers and doesn't give Players options.

• Tier 1: Skirmisher- Unarmored Defense, Unarmored Movement
  • Tier2: Brute-Quickened Healing
  • Tier2: Lurker- Ki-Fueled Attack
  • Tier2: Skirmisher- Evasion
    • Tier3: Brute
    • Tier3: Healer
    • Tier3: Lurker
    • Tier3: Skirmisher
    • Tier3: Tank
      • Tier4: Brute
      • Tier4: Controller
      • Tier4: Healer
      • Tier4: Lurker- Empty Body
      • Tier4: Skirmisher
      • Tier4: Tank- Perfect Defense

I understand what the tiers are. What I am saying is that your description doesn't match how class progression works in D&D. You've got different roles coming at different tiers, most of which don't track to what a 5e monk does (i.e. there are no brute, tank, or healer monks in 5e...well, maybe tank after level 18). So you seem to be describing a vision for monk that goes with a completely different game system, where your role can completely change at different tiers of play. That could be interesting, but I'm not sure how that would work with the updated PHB.

 

[Minigiant]

I understand what the tiers are. What I am saying is that your description doesn't match how class progression works in D&D. You've got different roles coming at different tiers, most of which don't track to what a 5e monk does (i.e. there are no brute, tank, or healer monks in 5e...well, maybe tank after level 18). So you seem to be describing a vision for monk that goes with a completely different game system, where your role can completely change at different tiers of play. That could be interesting, but I'm not sure how that would work with the updated PHB.

Because the 5e monk was written poorly and for people who don't play 5e.
So the 5.5emonk should be written to match how people perceive monks, want to play monks, and their popular tropes.

It's incredibly easy AND backwards compatible.

Monk

Level	Proficiency	Class Feature	Martial Arts Die	Discipline/Ki/Focus	Bonus Techniques	Unarmored Movement
1	+2	Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts	1d6	-	-
2	+2	Ki, Unarmored Movement	1d6	2	1	+10 ft.
3	+2	Monk Subclass	1d6	3	2	+10 ft.
4	+2	ASI	1d6	4	2	+10 ft.
5	+3	Extra Attack	1d8	5	3	+10 ft.
6	+3	Empowered Strikes, Monk Subclass	1d8	6	3	+15 ft.
7	+3	Evasion	1d8	7	4	+15 ft.
8	+3	ASI	1d8	8	4	+15 ft.
9	+4	Acrobatic Movement,	1d8	9	5	+15 ft.
10	+4	Self Restoration	1d8	10	5	+20 ft.

 

[Marandahir]

Dodge-Tank is a thing. No, they don't want to get hit. Yes, they do want to be the subject of attention.

It's the opposite sort of tank/defender from Fighter and Barbarian and Paladin who want to soak up blows and shrug it off due to massive defenses, damage reductions, and HP sponges.

Dodge Tanks just never get hit. Conceptually, even that could be a HP-sponge if HP is not meat points. But from a class design, I think we can and should have a type of Monk that hits hard and holds the attention of their enemies (drawing aggro, marking foes, locking them into focusing on them), but instead of getting hit when they are aggroed, they avoid the damage with high mobility and a Dex/Wis AC and abilities that turn hits into misses. If they DO get hit for real, they could be hit hard and really be in trouble, but their build is all about not getting hit.

This is a classic Monk, just as much as the more Roguish Striker/Attacker move in and move out and don't draw aggro concept is.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Dodge-Tank is a thing. No, they don't want to get hit. Yes, they do want to be the subject of attention.

It's the opposite sort of tank/defender from Fighter and Barbarian and Paladin who want to soak up blows and shrug it off due to massive defenses, damage reductions, and HP sponges.

Dodge Tanks just never get hit. Conceptually, even that could be a HP-sponge if HP is not meat points. But from a class design, I think we can and should have a type of Monk that hits hard and holds the attention of their enemies (drawing aggro, marking foes, locking them into focusing on them), but instead of getting hit when they are aggroed, they avoid the damage with high mobility and a Dex/Wis AC and abilities that turn hits into misses. If they DO get hit for real, they could be hit hard and really be in trouble, but their build is all about not getting hit.

This is a classic Monk, just as much as the more Roguish Striker/Attacker move in and move out and don't draw aggro concept is.

Sure, but mechanically, high mobility doesn't protect you until your mobility is double that of your opponents. So you are left with AC and turning hits into misses.