D&D 5E (2024) Tinkering with the Monk

[Willie the Duck]

it works but the foundation is not well built, we know what it is replicating far more these days

Can you elaborate?

I suspect the point is that the Monk, overall (throughout editions) is a dog's breakfast of tropes about martial artists. Also that it is still wedded to a version of that concept dreamed up by Brian Blume in 1975 with a lot of celestial cattle-ness about it that it can't shake.

To the former, the 2024 version has tried to shake off the 'inherent orientalism' tropes while still letting the people who want to play them as Remo Williams/ Kwai Chang Caine. It is arguable if they've succeeded.

To the later, well, it's still a high speed 'martial' class with lower hp, likely AC, and consistent damage output than a fighter that in exchange gets a bunch of situational perks and x/day-style benefits. I'd say what a 2024 monk can do with bonus action abilities and focus points are a lot more consistently usable than what they got in 1975 (or 2001) like being able to take less damage from falls -- if and only if you were next to a wall-- and the like.

So anyways, yeah the class both thematically and mechanically is still fighting to carve out a (specific) niche, but it does so a lot better than before. I can certainly understand reasonable people disagreeing on whether it has succeeded.

 

[mellored]

I suspect the point is that the Monk, overall (throughout editions) is a dog's breakfast of tropes about martial artists. Also that it is still wedded to a version of that concept dreamed up by Brian Blume in 1975 with a lot of celestial cattle-ness about it that it can't shake.

To the former, the 2024 version has tried to shake off the 'inherent orientalism' tropes while still letting the people who want to play them as Remo Williams/ Kwai Chang Caine. It is arguable if they've succeeded.

To the later, well, it's still a high speed 'martial' class with lower hp, likely AC, and consistent damage output than a fighter that in exchange gets a bunch of situational perks and x/day-style benefits. I'd say what a 2024 monk can do with bonus action abilities and focus points are a lot more consistently usable than what they got in 1975 (or 2001) like being able to take less damage from falls -- if and only if you were next to a wall-- and the like.

So anyways, yeah the class both thematically and mechanically is still fighting to carve out a (specific) niche, but it does so a lot better than before. I can certainly understand reasonable people disagreeing on whether it has succeeded.

Mechanically it has a strong niche. Highest maneuverability skirmisher, with a unique resource pool that meshes well with the base class.

Thematically it might not be for everyone, but I really like it mechanically.

It just was underpowered in 2014 and a tiny bit over tuned in 2024 (IMO).