Unpopular opinions go here

[CreamCloud0]

Avatar: The Lion Turtle and what he gives Aang completely neuters the actually interesting conflict that has been brewing the entire series, and robs the ending of that show of most of its potential emotional impact.

i think you posted in the wrong thread, this is meant to be unpopular opinions

avatar is definitely an amazing show but that point they really didn't nail the landing.

 

[mamba]

I don't even think 5E is the best system for all D&D games. When you have to have a 20-page stack of house rules to get the feel you want, you probably should have been looking at alternate systems.

This month I'll be running both Shadowdark and 5E games (including one at GenCon Online, which is exciting/terrifying) and while each adventure could be run in the other system, it would be poorer for doing so.

while I agree with this, I am now curious what you are running in 5e and what in SD (and what your pages of houserules are…)

 

[Reynard]

It doesn't matter how good any of the 5E-alikes will be, because since they don't say D&D on the cover will be irrelevant.

 

[overgeeked]

D&D is the supermassive black hole at the center of the RPG universe.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It doesn't matter how good any of the 5E-alikes will be, because since they don't say D&D on the cover will be irrelevant.

I think you are measuring them by a standard they're not trying to achieve.

Their goal is to scoop up all the people who know about the OGL and are worried about the impending 2024 editions not being compatible enough, not to replace D&D at the top of the charts. They just want to keep selling books without worrying about WotC going nuts again.

Pathfinder was a giant hit because of a series of events that are unlikely to ever happen quite the same way again, which I think Kobold Press and Cubicle 7 are well aware of.

 

[Reynard]

I think you are measuring them by a standard they're not trying to achieve.

Their goal is to scoop up all the people who know about the OGL and are worried about the impending 2024 editions not being compatible enough, not to replace D&D at the top of the charts. They just want to keep selling books without worrying about WotC going nuts again.

Pathfinder was a giant hit because of a series of events that are unlikely to ever happen quite the same way again, which I think Kobold Press and Cubicle 7 are well aware of.

I wasn't talking about sales or success, i was talking about relevance. As in, Kobold would have been just as relevant by continuing to go mainstream 5E.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

while I agree with this, I am now curious what you are running in 5e and what in SD (and what your pages of houserules are…)

The most immediate examples:

My coworkers want to play in a Lord of the Rings-style (but not Lord of the Rings) D&D campaign, which 5E's heroic fantasy tones and options fit quite well. There's war (over the horizon initially, but not forever), but the game won't ever focus on misery porn, but rather the idea that the forces of Good can ultimately triumph over Evil.

This weekend, for a different group of friends, I'm running a Shadowdark adventure I don't want to say too much about (/wave to those here), but it bounces between several types of horror, there's a high likelihood that people will need to use back-up characters to replace the first line when they die, and "victory" mostly consists on getting out alive, ideally with at least a little treasure to show for their efforts.

Now, it's possible to run each of those adventures with the other system, but the system fights against it. Horror in 5E mostly has to consist of deactivating all the player options and throwing unkillable threats at them. Heroism in Shadowdark means giving players more options and power than they normally have (like not having darkness be extremely dangerous for them) and finding a way to reward them other than just for gold pieces collected/spent.

I would rather match the game to the adventure than have to do surgery on the game to make the adventure work.

I don't think I'm using any house rules for either game currently, other than making up a few monsters and spells as appropriate, as folks who follow my posting history might guess.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I wasn't talking about sales or success, i was talking about relevance. As in, Kobold would have been just as relevant by continuing to go mainstream 5E.

In January, it looked very much like they weren't going to be allowed to. ToV allows them to produce 5E material even in the timeline where WotC didn't put the SRD in CC and openly hopes to put all their 5E competitors out of business in 2024. It's an insurance policy more than anything else.

The rules upgrades are being made because, honestly, everyone including WotC agrees that there are worthwhile changes to be made, and if you're going to be releasing your own books, why wouldn't you go ahead and do so?

 

[overgeeked]

It's ironic that Pathfinder started as a rejection of 4E, then Pathfinder 2E moved in almost the exact same directions as 4E. P2E is a squad-based tactical miniatures game in the exact same way that 4E is...only 4E has better balance.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's ironic that Pathfinder started as a rejection of 4E, then Pathfinder 2E moved in almost the exact same directions as 4E. P2E is a squad-based tactical miniatures game in the exact same way that 4E is...only 4E has better balance.

I think history suggests that 4E's design was great in a lot of ways, but it wasn't what most D&D players were looking for at that time.