D&D General What is player agency to you?

[pemerton]

Well.....dare I say........Bubblegumshoe

Which, as far as I know, relies on GM authorship of the answer to the mystery in advance of play.

 

[dave2008]

Complaining about lack of agency is pretty specific.

It just comes off as really odd that someone, or multiple someones would complain about agency but then not have anything to specific to say. Especially odd when you, the DM, can't pinpoint any agency denying moments.

Very confusing.

Its almost like we are not getting a whole or complete account of the events and perspectives on the situation!

 

[dave2008]

This is the big split between me and the Gaming Collective. I don't think any and every action a player randomly has a character randomly take can and should alter game reality.

I just want to be sure that you realize there is a difference between having character's actions matter and "altering the game reality." Player's want their choices to matter (have agency), that doesn't mean they want the game reality to change because of those choices.

 

[pemerton]

I just want to be sure that you realize there is a difference between having character's actions matter and "altering the game reality." Player's want their choices to matter (have agency), that doesn't mean they want the game reality to change because of those choices.

I don't know exactly what "game reality" means.

But if I declare an action for my PC, I expect - subject to the resolution procedure - to have it be able to add to or change the fiction. Even in a very simple D&D game, this would include things like my PC was over there but is now over here or this Orc was alive but now is dead.

To me, those look like changes to the "game reality".

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't know exactly what "game reality" means.

But if I declare an action for my PC, I expect - subject to the resolution procedure - to have it be able to add to or change the fiction. Even in a very simple D&D game, this would include things like my PC was over there but is now over here or this Orc was alive but now is dead.

To me, those look like changes to the "game reality".

I think you know what people mean. Changing reality by virtue of taking action that are within the ability of your PC to take is not the same as the  player making changes to the world outside of their PC.

 

[pemerton]

I think you know what people mean. Changing reality by virtue of taking action that are within the ability of your PC to take is not the same as the  player making changes to the world outside of their PC.

I don't know what people mean. That's why I said as much.

I don't know what all these games are that let players make changes to the fiction other than by declaring actions for their PCs. I only seem to see them mentioned by people who don't play them.

 

[soviet]

I think you know what people mean. Changing reality by virtue of taking action that are within the ability of your PC to take is not the same as the  player making changes to the world outside of their PC.

'Changing reality' implies that something defined was contradicted. What's generally being discussed is filling in things that haven't been defined - 'creating reality'. Players in traditional games do this all the time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't know what people mean. That's why I said as much.

I don't know what all these games are that let players make changes to the fiction other than by declaring actions for their PCs. I only seem to see them mentioned by people who don't play them.

PbtA games do this all the time, for example. Any time a player decides that something exists in the world outside of their PC they are doing this, especially if that something is helpful in the situation the PCs are in at the time, and/or has nothing to do personally with their PC.

 

[pemerton]

PbtA games do this all the time, for example.

Which ones do you have in mind?

Any time a player decides that something exists in the world outside of their PC they are doing this

What do you have in mind?

I've played plenty of D&D games where players describe their PCs clothes, sometimes their friends and family, etc. Is this what you mean?

Do you mean the GM asking the player's questions and incorporating their answers into what the GM says next? Then concrete examples would be helpful. In Apocalypse World, this is a method (i) of elucidating player goals/aspirations for their PCs, and (ii) giving effect to PC memory and knowledge. It is not the player "making changes outside of their PC".

 

[soviet]

I think you know what people mean. Changing reality by virtue of taking action that are within the ability of your PC to take is not the same as the  player making changes to the world outside of their PC.

I played my 5e barbarian/fighter on Wednesday. In that session I spent inspiration, chose to enter a berserk rage, used my Lucky feat to reroll a failed poison save, spent some (but not all) of my hit dice to heal what I needed to, and used some (but not all) of my battlemaster manoeuvres to survive the encounter but also keep something back for the next.

Which of those are decisions my character made, or had any concept of making, and which are decisions that I made as a player existing outside the game world?