D&D General What is player agency to you?

[EzekielRaiden]

Player: I'm going to use Second Wind to -
GM: Nope, you're too tired
Player: Oh, uh, I'll use my Noble background to -
GM: Nope, they've never heard of you
Player: Well I'll cast -
GM: The winds of magic are unpredictable, my friend! No bueno
Player: Well I'll tell the guard -
GM: He doesn't speak Common, only Orcish
Player: Haha, I can speak Orcish too, I say -
GM: He's deaf
Player: I draw my sword out of the scabbard -
GM: It's stuck
Player: I hit him with the sword still in the scabbard -
GM: It slips out of your hand and down a ravine
Player: I sit down in despair
GM: No need to give up yet! I was just about to let you exercise your agency!

Careful now. You're saying the quiet part out loud.

 

[Maxperson]

.....what.

Seriously. What.

Trying to make sincere, earnest requests actually happen...is now antagonistic to agency.

Are you serious, Max? I just....I genuinely cannot believe what I have just read. This is openly, blatantly contradictory.

It's not contradictory at all, though. If every request earnest or otherwise is going to get a yes and possible success, no request means squat. Earnest = non-earnest under those circumstances because they're all the same. Why bother putting effort in if it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter = little agency.

For my requests to matter, they have to be judged on likelihood of success, which includes auto failures, disadvantage, normal rolls, advantage, and auto successes. If you don't give them the proper weight they deserve, you aren't respecting my agency.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Nice dodge.

I'll ask it again, "Can the players break the rules while the GM is bound by them?"

Given the question itself was a nice dodge to begin with, why should I answer? This is blatantly, flagrantly in bad faith.

It's not contradictory at all, though. If every request earnest or otherwise is going to get a yes and possible success, no request means squat. Earnest = non-earnest under those circumstances because they're all the same. Why bother putting effort in if it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter = little agency.

For my requests to matter, they have to be judged on likelihood of success, which includes auto failures, disadvantage, normal rolls, advantage, and auto successes. If you don't give them the proper weight they deserve, you aren't respecting my agency.

And so is this.

 

[Maxperson]

Careful now. You're saying the quiet part out loud.

We left it quiet because literally no one came close to arguing any of that in this thread. It was all extreme hyperbole, but without even the constructive goal that my egg example had.

 

[Maxperson]

Given the question itself was a nice dodge to begin with, why should I answer? This is blatantly, flagrantly in bad faith.


And so is this.

How the hell was my last post a dodge or bad faith. It was very clear and very honest about what I believe and what my stance is.

 

[mamba]

In the examples I've posted, you can see the moments of GM narration, because I call them out. Those are the things that the GM brings to the game.

I guess that was the question, did the GM just refer back to something the players had said before, or was there an actual decision / something added, that was not there because the players had brought it up first. Thanks

 

[mamba]

Then don't use it. Problem solved.

yes, but that avoids having to answer my question, doesn’t it. I was asking that for a reason…

I don't see the irrelevance at all. If a player thinks the ability makes no sense, they won't use it. If they use it, that means they think it makes sense. Unless you're saying we need GM authority to save players from themselves?

it is irrelevant to whatever your answer to my question would be, but you managed to not answer it anyway

The question was specifically asked to answer one question and one question only: can the players decide that the rules they insist bind the DM (so the audience must be granted by the DM) be violated by the players if they wanted to (so they asked but still get no audience because they decided it makes no sense that they should, even if / when they did ask)?

And people perform a song and dance instead of simply saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’

So let’s go back, the players ask in Buckingham Palace for an audience with the king. After doing so (and before getting an answer) one points out ‘we are in a different world, no one knows us, they won’t recognize our nobility and think we are just some crazy people’. The players discuss this idea and decide that yes, this is in fact a much more reasonable expectation.

So, given how the rule is written (no exceptions, they will be recognized), do they get their audience or not? In other words are they able to violate game rules while at the same time insisting that under no circumstances whatsoever the DM could.

 

[mamba]

Seriously. What.

Trying to make sincere, earnest requests actually happen...is now antagonistic to agency.

no, it is the DM’s way of respecting the player by saying ‘this is an awful attempt, I know you can do better, in fact you will have to’ instead of ‘of course my sweet darling, I understand that I should expect no better of you, showing no effort is always showing enough effort, here you go, let me help you’

 

[mamba]

Given the question itself was a nice dodge to begin with, why should I answer? This is blatantly, flagrantly in bad faith

utter nonsense, it is a serious question, and you all squirming is an answer too

 

[pemerton]

.....what.

Seriously. What.

Trying to make sincere, earnest requests actually happen...is now antagonistic to agency.

Are you serious, Max? I just....I genuinely cannot believe what I have just read. This is openly, blatantly contradictory.

I negate your agency by agreeing with you!