D&D 2E Looking back at the Monstrous Compendia: the MC appendices, Monstrous Manual, and more!

Voadam

Legend
Um yeah.

So incubus being a succubus variant does have roots in 1e, which makes this seem more likely a typo.
Not to get ahead of ourselves but the next one is MC6 Kara Tur which I do not see an incubus in. MC 8 Outer Planes Appendix though has an entry for an incubus as a male counterpart of the succubus.

In any case I found the Ingundi weird in Greyhawk Adventures and still weird in MC5 Greyhawk. I find the GA/MC5 sea zombies rumored to be raised by the will of Nerull the Reaper much more Greyhawk associated.

Not sure how much that is from sea zombies having a cool illustration in GA and being on the cover of MC5, while the ingundi are unillustrated in GA and look like barely bipedal iguana people in MC 5.
 

log in or register to remove this ad



AuldDragon

Explorer
ranging from the gargantua monsters being clear analogues to kaiju such as Godzilla and Mothra,
One thing I like to point out is that despite the expected analogue for the reptilian gargantua (which of course can cover lots of different ones, including Varan or Barugon) is Godzilla, but a close reading of the description (hooked claws, triangular ears like little wings) is the British kaiju Gorgo. :D
 

Attachments

  • 86185-7545.jpg
    86185-7545.jpg
    57.1 KB · Views: 53

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
So far, we've run into quite a few MCs that were totally or near-totally devoted to updating AD&D 1E monsters to the game's Second Edition. Now, with MC7 have a lineup of all-new monsters – courtesy of its being for Spelljammer, which originated with 2E – you might have thought that we were done with MCs devoted to conversions.

But there's one more to go, covering perhaps the single largest gap in monster coverage outside of the first two Monstrous Compendia. That's right, it's time for M8 Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix. Or, as I like to call it, "Planescape Minus Planescape." (Yes, that's a Garfield Minus Garfield joke.)

You'll notice that we once again have an MC appendix that's titled in such a way that it doesn't actually reference a campaign setting, instead focusing on an area of the game world (i.e. the Outer Planes) the same way MC6 did. That said, there's a bit of an asterisk to that, which is that this MC would be superseded entirely a couple years down the road when the Planescape setting came out. While it's not quite the same in what it covers, the first Planescape MC is effectively the same as this one, except with a lot more Tony DiTerlizzi (and toned-down XP values).

In that regard, I can't help but look at this as being perhaps the single most superfluous MC, because even before the first Planescape monster book made this near-totally obsolete, a lot of its most notable monsters got reprinted in the Monstrous Manual. Not all of them, by a longshot, but when I think of mariliths or pit fiends, what I picture are colorized versions of the Tom Baxa art, rather than DiTerlizzi's evocative illustrations.

As it was, I picked this one up several years ago as part of my push to finish collecting all of the AD&D 2E MCs in print. While I held out a lot of hope that there'd be a forgotten monster in here that was never reprinted anywhere else, from what I can tell that's not the case. While there are several creatures in here that didn't make it into any of the Planescape monstrous appendices, or even the Monster Manual, I'm pretty certain that they all got reprinted somewhere (for instance, I seem to recall that the adamantite dragon saw new life in the Planes of Conflict boxed set, while the zoveri was in Planes of Law).

Of course, MC8 isn't exactly alone in that regard, as some of the Monstrous Compendium Annual volumes will showcase when we get to them.

Okay, there's a single exception, sort of: under the Animal Lord entry, the Cat Lord in this book is actually the predecessor of the Cat Lord found in the Planescape MC, the former being male and the latter being female. That would be something of a minor mystery that Planescape dangled in front of its fans, though I was never entirely certain what the answer was (I thought it had something to do with Gary Gygax's Gord the Rogue stories, and I seem to recall something about the Egyptian goddess Bast being involved, but I never did put together all the pieces to that particular puzzle). But that is, so far as I'm aware, the only exception.

That said, Planescape didn't quite steal all the thunder here, since this book – which predates it by three years – gets props for being the point of origin for a notable element that campaign would later build on. Sure, there's no Sigil, no Lady of Pain, and no one is calling anyone else "berk," but this is the first place you'll find mention of the Blood War, the eternal conflict between the demons tanar'ri and devils baatezu that eventually got its own boxed set. The entire thing was a cool idea only somewhat undercut by the use of those alternative names for the classic agents of evil used to demonically bedevil PCs everywhere.

Now, leaving aside my coming up through the Rules Cyclopedia era of BECMI, AD&D 2E was where I got started, and so when I saw those names in the Monstrous Manual, I didn't know any better. Likewise, even when I eventually figured out what those names were placeholders for, it was after Planescape started batting around the idea of "sure, mortals call them demons and devils, but this is what they call themselves. Berk." Given that I was eagerly taking in everything I could about the game's lore (2E being the golden era of lore, with its unified multiverse and voluminous product output), I accepted this without a second thought, and to this day don't really mind those alternative names...even if I can understand why a lot of people groan and roll their eyes when they hear them.

And while I suspect I'm revealing my own hypocrisy here, I can't really bring myself to care too much about the setting baggage attached to all of these planar monsters the way I did those in MC6. To my mind, that's because there's an important difference, which is that the planes are an omnipresent aspect of the setting's backdrop in a way that the Celestial Bureaucracy isn't. It doesn't really matter what campaign world you're from, the planes are out there somewhere, which means that if a succubus or a nightmare appears, it's justified without necessarily altering the tone of your campaign the way an entirely new pantheon of gods (since gods are active and interventionist) would.

Of course, nowadays I'm a bit less sanguine to that idea, since there are tonal clashes with campaigns such as Dragonlance or Birthright, campaigns largely cut off from the planes such as Dark Sun or Ravenloft, and even people who might want to play under a different planar arrangement altogether. But even then, I can't help but think that the monsters here could still be squeezed in without much trouble at all; the idea of "monsters who dwell in the afterlife, but come cause trouble in the living world as well" strikes me as being universal in most fantasy games (even if the application varies widely).

So what can be said about the monsters here, specifically? Honestly, I'm not sure what I have to add that isn't readily apparent to any D&D aficionado. Angels aasimon, baatezu, tanar'ri, daemons yugoloths, and demodands gehreleths are all fairly iconic creatures in D&D (even if not equally so). There are a lot of minor planar creatures that have considerably less prestige, but while they go to the general area of "the weirdness of the planes," I'm not sure how much they're notable even in that regard. I mean, don't get me wrong, the githyanki and githzerai are not to be overlooked lightly (I swear, the "Incursion" campaign in Dragon/Dungeon/Polyhedron back at the beginning of 3.5 never got its due), but for the most part, no one misses the vaporighu or the moon dog.

Though I do still think the slaad are pretty cool...which reminds me, why did the modrons get the shaft, here? I mean, I'm glad Planescape put them right there in the Planescape Campaign Setting, but they, the eladrin (before 4E redefined them as super-elves), and the guardinals all got passed over pretty hard...well, maybe not those last two, since I'm pretty sure they hadn't existed in AD&D 1E, but even so!

Overall, its a sad truth that MC8 is the monster book whose legacy is that it largely served as a stopgap measure. Released as a late update for monsters that were popular with gamers but abhorred by the "Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons" crowd, its accomplishments were hijacked by Planescape a few years later, leaving it with no lasting legacy of its own besides introducing the Blood War.

Ultimately, the Outer Planes Appendix got plane-shifted out of the spotlight, and never regained it.

Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.
 
Last edited:

AuldDragon

Explorer
There are actually three monsters that never got fully updated from MC08: The Adamantite Dragon (it got referenced in Planescape, but became a single individual and never had an updated MC sheet), the Air Sentinel (of Shurrock), and the Celestial Lammasu. Besides the adamantite dragon, they probably got mentioned but I don't recall offhand. It never really sat well with me, changing the adamantite dragons that way.

Regarding the Cat Lord, it wouldn't surprise me if the change between male and female was a direct response to DiTerlizzi's artwork. I should ask him sometime on Twitter and see if he remembers.

Eladrin and Guardinals definitely didn't exist before Planescape, and in fact, I don't think they even existed at the very beginning of the setting. They probably were created when they decided to expand the various planes with the "Planes Of..." boxed sets.

I've always wanted to talk to whoever set the XP amounts in MC08, and find out what they were thinking and how they arrived at the numbers, considering they don't match the 2e DMG calculation charts. If not for the ones that occasionally end in a 500 amount rather than even 1000s, I would think they were giving a hit die for every single spell-like power.

Jeff
 
Last edited:

JEB

Legend
There are actually three monsters that never got fully updated from MC08: The Adamantite Dragon (it got referenced in Planescape, but became a single individual and never had an updated MC sheet), the Air Sentinel (of Shurrock), and the Celestial Lammasu. Besides the adamantite dragon, they probably got mentioned but I don't recall offhand. It never really sat well with me, changing the adamantite dragons that way.
Adamantite dragons didn't make a comeback, but 3E and 4E did eventually have adamantine dragons (in Dragon #321 and Monster Manual 2, respectively).

The celestial lammasu proper didn't return, but the 3.5 Monster Manual did give us the golden protector, a lammasu with the half-dragon and celestial templates. (And the description does mention celestial lammasus, though presumably they're just lammasus with the celestial template.)

The air sentinel, though, was definitely one and done.

I've always wanted to talk to whoever set the XP amounts in MC08, and find out what they were thinking and how they arrived at the numbers, considering they don't match the 2e DMG calculation charts. If not for the ones that occasionally end in a 500 amount rather than even 1000s, I would think they were giving a hit die for every single spell-like power.
Yeah, I'd also be very interested in how they arrived at such drastically high numbers.
 

Voadam

Legend
I borrowed MC8 from the guy in our group who bought it when it came out and I really liked the introduction of the Blood War including Yugoloths as mercenaries for both sides. It made the 1e Manual of the Planes set up much more active, and provided some backdrop justifications for fiends not being more focused on the prime or invading heaven or whatever while still being active evil that was not just lurking in their home planes.

I started out with B/X which had no planar stuff, and 1e AD&D which had the full Great Wheel panoply of fiends. I was relatively fine with 2e not having demons in core and focusing on humanoids and undead and dragons and such, but also really glad they had a full appendix with complete sets of various planar groups and the expanded 2e lore entries. Mostly it did not affect me and my games much either way at the time as I was continuing with the three 1e hardcover monster books for my 2e games, the modules I was running had very few planar monsters, and once I got into Ravenloft fiend stuff was not that big a deal anyway.

I never felt MC8 got superseded by the Monstrous Manual or the Planescape stuff, but I was not into Planescape at the time. The later Monstrous Manual only had a smattering of fiends so having the variety of them all in one place was still attractive even after the 2e MM came out. Di'Terlizzi's art style is fantastic for fey stuff but I generally prefer a different vibe for straight out full on fiends. Having gotten them since though they are fantastically lush and attractive full color monster books that look a bit like a Froud D&D book.
 
Last edited:

Orius

Legend
@AuldDragon's right, there's only three monsters from this MC that did not get a full reprint later in 2e, but one does have to dig through a good amount of Planescape to find some of these entries. He listed them, so I don't have to go digging through my notes to look them up (gives us more time to make fun of Bwimb :p).

The first Planescape MC is still superior IMO as it includes all the important monsters, Tony DiTerlizzi's art rather than Tom Baxa's, and has better XP Values, unfortunately WotC only has this one available on DriveThru. This one's fine as a reference as long as one has the proper XPs I guess. It does bring back the demons and devils and other extraplanar stuff from 1e, so it did fill a gap left in the earlier MCs. It also introduced the idea of the Blood War, but it would take Planescape to actually do anything with it. The beginning of the MC seems to be a mini update of the Manual of the Planes at least where the Outer Planes are concerned, but once again, this is something Planescape would later handle in full detail.

Like Alzrius, I was unaware of 2e's fiend purge until later, so the name changes didn't bother me too much. Even now, I'm not bothered much by it because I do have the 2e stats for them. I just don't bother much with using the terms baatezu and tanar'ri in my game, they're devils and demons.

Some background information on the development of MC8 here:

 
Last edited:

AuldDragon

Explorer
Adamantite dragons didn't make a comeback, but 3E and 4E did eventually have adamantine dragons (in Dragon #321 and Monster Manual 2, respectively).

The celestial lammasu proper didn't return, but the 3.5 Monster Manual did give us the golden protector, a lammasu with the half-dragon and celestial templates. (And the description does mention celestial lammasus, though presumably they're just lammasus with the celestial template.)

The air sentinel, though, was definitely one and done.
Oh, I just meant in 2e Planescape products. I don't know anything about 3e/later editions updates. :)

Like Alzrius, I was unaware of 2e's fiend purge until later, so the name changes didn't bother me too much. Even now, I'm not bothered much by it because I do have the 2e stats for them. I just don't bother much with using the terms baatezu and tanar'ri in my game, they're devils and demons.
I was aware of the change even though I got into D&D in the early 90s, because my first D&D purchases were an "old" collection from someone else which included some 1e and 2e material, so I saw the change. Plus I had some close relatives were who super "we know someone who knew someone who knew someone who killed themself over this devil's game!" so it was pretty familiar to me. But I didn't care at all; even then I liked the idea of making them their own thing separate from "mortal baggage."

Jeff
 

Remove ads

Top