E. Gary Gygax Sr. May Have Had Another, More Recent Will?

[Maxperson]

Another item was removed from the auction. Last count I saw was 261 and now it's 260. Makes me wonder if perhaps there are private buy-out offers being accepted.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Well, it looks like the IP is a bit in play, which surprises me

I'm guessing the executors are looking at the work and comparing what Luke wants to do with it, with the fact that Gail has done nothing of financial value with it, and from a financial perspective I suspect the argument is that not using it would hurt the value of it for the later inheritance, so according to the twitch stream they've been authorized to at least put some pre-existing stuff back in print.

Mixed feelings for me. I am happy for the fans the stuff is back in print, and Yggsburg is a great product--but the will clearly establishes that Gail was correct in having primary control and the rights to stuff like the trademarks. From a moral perspective, I feel Gail was in the right to do whatever with the property even if it wasn't what I or the fans would have wanted, and some of this feels more like a coup d'eat...but I also feel various decisions she made ended up with this particular outcome.

This just makes me miss Gary more.

 

[Maxperson]

I love that in the 2006 Will Gary gives each child a first pick, second pick and third pick of gifts, including a possible percentile die roll as if players splitting treasure in a D&D game!

 

[Nikosandros]

Well, it looks like the IP is a bit in play, which surprises me

I'm guessing the executors are looking at the work and comparing what Luke wants to do with it, with the fact that Gail has done nothing of financial value with it, and from a financial perspective I suspect the argument is that not using it would hurt the value of it for the later inheritance, so according to the twitch stream they've been authorized to at least put some pre-existing stuff back in print.

Mixed feelings for me. I am happy for the fans the stuff is back in print, and Yggsburg is a great product--but the will clearly establishes that Gail was correct in having primary control and the rights to stuff like the trademarks. From a moral perspective, I feel Gail was in the right to do whatever with the property even if it wasn't what I or the fans would have wanted, and some of this feels more like a coup d'eat...but I also feel various decisions she made ended up with this particular outcome.

This just makes me miss Gary more.

You are much more informed than I am, so I will ask two sincere questions.

Do you feel that Gail was handling the IP in the way that Gary hoped? Were there valid reasons not to bring forth the second will?

I know that those may sound like loaded questions, but I feel that I'm biased due to my selfish desire of seeing more of Gary stuff and I'm trying to understand the issue from someone who is much more informed and has a much clearer view of the matter.

Of course, I'll perfectly understand if you'd rather not answer me.

 

[Maxperson]

You are much more informed than I am, so I will ask two sincere questions.

Do you feel that Gail was handling the IP in the way that Gary hoped? Were there valid reasons not to bring forth the second will?

I know that those may sound like loaded questions, but I feel that I'm biased due to my selfish desire of seeing more of Gary stuff and I'm trying to understand the issue from someone who is much more informed and has a much clearer view of the matter.

Of course, I'll perfectly understand if you'd rather not answer me.

I know you weren't asking me, but in my opinion there is never a valid reason not to bring forth the most recent will. It's the most recent desire of the deceased for how they want their assets divided. If you aren't going to honor their wishes, what's the point of allowing wills at all.

As for question number 1, I think Gail wasn't doing well with the IP.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I know you weren't asking me, but in my opinion there is never a valid reason not to bring forth the most recent will. It's the most recent desire of the deceased for how they want their assets divided. If you aren't going to honor their wishes, what's the point of allowing wills at all.

As for question number 1, I think Gail wasn't doing well with the IP.

Gail wasn't doing anything at all with the IP. Nothing has eventuated in the decade+ since Gary's death. Even the Gygax memorial never eventuated.

Gary's kids, however, have not only made their own memorial, they (Luke, mainly) have actually released gaming material and been active on the gaming scene.

 

[darjr]

Gail wasn't doing anything at all with the IP. Nothing has eventuated in the decade+ since Gary's death. Even the Gygax memorial never eventuated.

Gary's kids, however, have not only made their own memorial, they (Luke, mainly) have actually released gaming material and been active on the gaming scene.

Gary Con is also amazing.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Gary Con is also amazing.

Exactly. The only viable Gary Gygax legacy related products or events since his death have involved Luke. WotC understands that, Tom deSantos understands that, the courts realise that. Only Gail didn’t. (Weird that her son Alex could figure it out)

 

[JohnRTroy]

Do you feel that Gail was handling the IP in the way that Gary hoped? Were there valid reasons not to bring forth the second will?

I know that those may sound like loaded questions, but I feel that I'm biased due to my selfish desire of seeing more of Gary stuff and I'm trying to understand the issue from someone who is much more informed and has a much clearer view of the matter.

Regarding the will -- I doubt it, unless there was a change in plan that was never notarized.

The IP question to me is complex.

• Do I think Gary would have expected what happened to happen? No, I doubt it.
• Do I think Gary would have been okay with his designated heirs doing whatever they wanted with it after his death. Yes. (With perhaps some reservations, he was hard to predict).
• Do I think Gary would have wanted fans to protest and even go the point of attacking any of his family members. Absolutely not.

See, in this particular case, I don't think Gary's priorities were his fans or getting his work out there. His priority was his family, and I don't think gaming was the most important thing in his life. Gary was smart, if he really wanted it to be, he could have gone the MAR Barker route and setup some sort of foundation, etc. He didn't.

The reason I posted what I did is I believe past merit and participation is important. Gail ran (actually owned) Gary's publishing company. She took a job in real estate to support Gary, she handled a lot of things for him, and they loved each other. Most fans had no issues with her in life while Gary was alive. For all that time spent, she earned the rights to control Gary's IP and inherit stuff, which the will supports.

And I have said this before, but Luke didn't participate in Gary's direct projects while he was alive. Lost City of Gaxmoor was with the trolls but not Trigee. Gary actually said he wanted Luke and Ernie to co-write CZ when Kuntz exited, but they refused, saying "there wasn't much financial recourse in it" (at least that was what Gary paraphrased). While that doesn't mean they couldn't have change of heart, and I think at least on some level he sincerely wants to promote his father's work, it does bug me on a level. My brother has businesses that I have nothing to do with -- if he died, I wouldn't expect to be given anything and I certainly wouldn't come in saying "he wanted to leave it to me".

That part wouldn't bug me as much if it wasn't for the whole Gygax Magazine issue. Gail got a lot of flack for this -- but now that the will has been shown (or at least described)...Gail was in the right there. I called that a decade ago, but now there is proof. And that thing was kind or weird to begin with -- the whole company was setup so Jayson Elliot was the priority owner, so he might of ended up with the name if he had a conflict with Luke and Ernie. I might have ended up more sympathetic to Luke if that had not happened.

I look at it this way -- say there was a restaurant or nightclub or some place owned by a swell guy everybody loved. The guy died. His wife decides to close the club (she still lives upstairs there) and won't sell it. A few of his kids protest and want to take over the club. But it's not really their call to make. People could protest, but it's really not up to them. I feel the same way about Gary's IP, even though I know people have a zeal for it.

Before I got to know Gary, I was a fan of his creations. However, over time, my perspective changed. I feel I should treat him like I'd treat any friend. I felt Gail has the right to try AND FAIL, as she earned it, even if I don't personally agree with it. I feel Gary would have wanted that, and even if I felt Gail was doing something completely contrary to Gary's wishes, I don't think Gary would want me to do things akin to stuff like, for example, Tenkar's dozens of blog posts dinging her over the years, several of them unjustified. If she doesn't want to take other people's advice, so be it. Some folks have accused me of sycophantry or something like that -- but to be honest, if I was that kind of guy, I'd be siding with Luke, as he is probably more successful in that gaming arena. And I really wanted Gary's works printed myself. But from a moral perspective I can't go with the vox populi on this.

That being said -- I was never privy to the exact terms of the Will before, and either because of the Will not being entered years ago, or because the court is looking at what I mentioned before and feels the items are being squandered, then that's probably logical consequences of her choices, and I can also accept that from a moral perspective.

I have to wonder if the Will was submitted and then everything else that happened happened as it did, would the same battle have happened.

Then again, I'm sad that in this timeline everybody was divided, and that Gary died too early.

Gail wasn't doing anything at all with the IP. Nothing has eventuated in the decade+ since Gary's death. Even the Gygax memorial never eventuated.

Gary's kids, however, have not only made their own memorial, they (Luke, mainly) have actually released gaming material and been active on the gaming scene.

I should point out that the Memorial Fund has been doing a lot of things. There has been the park bench, the library project, the museum project. Even today, a GenCon Founder Stone is being installed in Horticultural Hall. Members of Gary's family have been in attendance there. Gail and Alex have sat with Ernie and Heidi. So they are doing stuff. Memorials are complex projects that can take a lot of time. If Gail ends up losing control of the IP permanently at least she can focus on all of these efforts.

Whether or not you may or may not be the best person to handle the IP on a creative level doesn't mean you legally or morally should be in control of it.

 

[bedir than]

Regarding the will -- I doubt it, unless there was a change in plan that was never notarized.

The IP question to me is complex.

• Do I think Gary would have expected what happened to happen? No, I doubt it.
• Do I think Gary would have been okay with his designated heirs doing whatever they wanted with it after his death. Yes. (With perhaps some reservations, he was hard to predict).
• Do I think Gary would have wanted fans to protest and even go the point of attacking any of his family members. Absolutely not.

See, in this particular case, I don't think Gary's priorities were his fans or getting his work out there. His priority was his family, and I don't think gaming was the most important thing in his life. Gary was smart, if he really wanted it to be, he could have gone the MAR Barker route and setup some sort of foundation, etc. He didn't.

The reason I posted what I did is I believe past merit and participation is important. Gail ran (actually owned) Gary's publishing company. She took a job in real estate to support Gary, she handled a lot of things for him, and they loved each other. Most fans had no issues with her in life while Gary was alive. For all that time spent, she earned the rights to control Gary's IP and inherit stuff, which the will supports.

And I have said this before, but Luke didn't participate in Gary's direct projects while he was alive. Lost City of Gaxmoor was with the trolls but not Trigee. Gary actually said he wanted Luke and Ernie to co-write CZ when Kuntz exited, but they refused, saying "there wasn't much financial recourse in it" (at least that was what Gary paraphrased). While that doesn't mean they couldn't have change of heart, and I think at least on some level he sincerely wants to promote his father's work, it does bug me on a level. My brother has businesses that I have nothing to do with -- if he died, I wouldn't expect to be given anything and I certainly wouldn't come in saying "he wanted to leave it to me".

That part wouldn't bug me as much if it wasn't for the whole Gygax Magazine issue. Gail got a lot of flack for this -- but now that the will has been shown (or at least described)...Gail was in the right there. I called that a decade ago, but now there is proof. And that thing was kind or weird to begin with -- the whole company was setup so Jayson Elliot was the priority owner, so he might of ended up with the name if he had a conflict with Luke and Ernie. I might have ended up more sympathetic to Luke if that had not happened.

I look at it this way -- say there was a restaurant or nightclub or some place owned by a swell guy everybody loved. The guy died. His wife decides to close the club (she still lives upstairs there) and won't sell it. A few of his kids protest and want to take over the club. But it's not really their call to make. People could protest, but it's really not up to them. I feel the same way about Gary's IP, even though I know people have a zeal for it.

Before I got to know Gary, I was a fan of his creations. However, over time, my perspective changed. I feel I should treat him like I'd treat any friend. I felt Gail has the right to try AND FAIL, as she earned it, even if I don't personally agree with it. I feel Gary would have wanted that, and even if I felt Gail was doing something completely contrary to Gary's wishes, I don't think Gary would want me to do things akin to stuff like, for example, Tenkar's dozens of blog posts dinging her over the years, several of them unjustified. If she doesn't want to take other people's advice, so be it. Some folks have accused me of sycophantry or something like that -- but to be honest, if I was that kind of guy, I'd be siding with Luke, as he is probably more successful in that gaming arena. And I really wanted Gary's works printed myself. But from a moral perspective I can't go with the vox populi on this.

That being said -- I was never privy to the exact terms of the Will before, and either because of the Will not being entered years ago, or because the court is looking at what I mentioned before and feels the items are being squandered, then that's probably logical consequences of her choices, and I can also accept that from a moral perspective.

I have to wonder if the Will was submitted and then everything else that happened happened as it did, would the same battle have happened.

Then again, I'm sad that in this timeline everybody was divided, and that Gary died too early.


I should point out that the Memorial Fund has been doing a lot of things. There has been the park bench, the library project, the museum project. Even today, a GenCon Founder Stone is being installed in Horticultural Hall. Members of Gary's family have been in attendance there. Gail and Alex have sat with Ernie and Heidi. So they are doing stuff. Memorials are complex projects that can take a lot of time. If Gail ends up losing control of the IP permanently at least she can focus on all of these efforts.

Whether or not you may or may not be the best person to handle the IP on a creative level doesn't mean you legally or morally should be in control of it.

The "museum project" you mention is the display at the Lake Geneva museum, correct?