Unpopular opinions go here

[Gradine]

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[Thomas Shey]

In fact, I will argue that most of the groups who are most vocally moving away from D&D and have been for years are being driven by anything but game design. It's mostly political grandstanding, though amusingly the politics are coming from all sides.

If this was true there'd be very, very few other fantasy games, and they'd all wear their politics on their sleeves. But there were nontrivial groups moving away from D&D as early as 1977.

Edit: To make it clear, by "nontrivial" I mean when viewed as total number of people, not in comparison to D&D once it got rolling. I do not believe is is actually possible to separate the various factors that made modern D&D the juggernaut it is in any fashion useful for discussion.

 

[billd91]

The post-pandemic move to VTTs has taken care of a lot of that. Some of it may just be a matter of critical mass, too, I suppose. MMOs are a lot more popular than D&D, they'res a lot more people playing them, it's easier to just join a server and play.... if MMOs or CCGs were tiny niche things, it'd be harder to find others to play with

But, sure, closely comparable in that they're popular with the same sorts of demographics, for the same sorts of enjoyment? Is that unreasonable?

It may have taken, what, one of those things and ameliorated it? We don't have to be in the same place. But I still need people, now they even have to learn how to work the VTT. And the effort to prep for VTT? I don't mind doing it for a good effect, but it's DEFINITELY more than prepping for a game where I'm quickly drawing stuff on the vinyl battle map.
So, I'm totally NOT seeing VTTs taking care a lot of the issue with TTRPGs down to the convenience of CRPGs or MMOs.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The post-pandemic move to VTTs has taken care of a lot of that. Some of it may just be a matter of critical mass, too, I suppose. MMOs are a lot more popular than D&D, they'res a lot more people playing them, it's easier to just join a server and play.... if MMOs or CCGs were tiny niche things, it'd be harder to find others to play with

But, sure, closely comparable in that they're popular with the same sorts of demographics, for the same sorts of enjoyment? Is that unreasonable?

I think this also raises the question at what point will stuff like this be a different experience from table top gaming. I play a lot online without VTT (just theater of the mind) but I can see if VTTs get sufficiently advanced, they may start being something different (and not necessarily something bad, as a VTT that gave the GM the power to effectively run an MMO style game spontaneously and in reaction to the players interaction sounds fun). But since TTRPGs are games of imagination I do wonder at what point a platform is doing more than simply helping to track things like a battlemat, and turned into a new medium

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was able to keep running my game when my health was so bad, I couldn't have gotten to an in-person game, even if there wasn't a quarantine on. So I'm pretty impressed with how much VTTs can facilitate running a TTRPG.

 

[Gradine]

If this was true there'd be very, very few other fantasy games, and they'd all wear their politics on their sleeves. But there were nontrivial groups moving away from D&D as early as 1977.

Oh no, it's absolutely the opposite. The fact that there are so many D&D-esque games, especially in recent years, proves the point, rather than disproving it. Why make your own D&D clone if your issues are with D&D's genre or mechanics? Those games already exist. Why make your own twist on it instead of just tweaking the original unless to avoid supporting WotC for <insert reason here>

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not saying that all RPGs are D&D. I'm saying that the claim that "a system can do X genre/setting" is a pretty low bar, as it's mostly about aesthetics at a fairly superficial level (i.e., lipstick on the pig). Your claim here sounds like more of the same "these pigs here can wear any shade of lipstick" to me.

Well, and I say this as someone who doesn't entirely disagree with you, it also turns on the fact that to some people the differences between most genres is trivial. To those who think there are more important elements that require some work, at least for some of them, that can be kind of eye-roll producing, but its not disingenuous as such.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Absolutely, at least I sure hope so. Your point?

What you wish you were getting from 5e or the next version of 5e, is something you're already getting from elsewhere in the market?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh no, it's absolutely the opposite. The fact that there are so many D&D-esque games, especially in recent years, proves the point, rather than disproving it. Why make your own D&D clone if your issues are with D&D's genre or mechanics? Those games already exist. Why make your own twist on it instead of just tweaking the original unless to avoid supporting WotC for <insert reason here>

Not every fantasy game is a D&D clone, and the fact you have issues with mechanics doesn't mean A) you have the same ones as other people or B) are even aware of one that may already fit your needs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What you wish you were getting from 5e or the next version of 5e, is something you're already getting from elsewhere in the market?

And I do. Unfortunately, WotC owns a lot of IP I care about, not to mention their sales-driven decisions lead the community and the industry around by the nose, preventing me from ignoring them if I want to actually engage with other gamers.