Unpopular opinions go here

[Cadence]

The distinction between different types of alignment-based celestials, fiends, and extraplanar entities in D&D is absolutely ridiculous and completely unnecessary grid-filling. Most people outside of D&D couldn't tell you the difference between a demon and a devil, and that's even more so true for differences between celestials. So yeah, I wish that it wasn't a thing.

Also looking up sorcerer, wizard, warlock, enchanter, etc ... for the arcane classes and subclasses.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

There were plenty of Roman soldiers who spent more time building roads and on other construction projects than they did fighting but they were still in the army. Scientific exploration, rescue operations, resupply missions, etc., etc., are things our current military does today. When a disaster strikes the United States, we send in the National Guard to rescue people, distrbute food/supplies, and to help make critical repairs.

Kirk was sent to a courts martial for allegedly failing in his duty during a scientific mission. Kirk was prosecuted by a military officer, judged by a panel of captains, and they make it a point to let us know his lawyer was actually a civilian. The idea that Starfleet wasn't a military organization didn't pop up until after the series ended and it's because Roddenberry went off the deep end. TNG only improved when Roddenberry's influence began to wane.

I am breaking my exile on discussing Star Trek to add this one piece of context.

In (slight) defense of Rodenberry, you have to also remember the context of the time. Gene Rodenberry, like most people of his age, served in WW2 (he was in a B17) before transitioning in his civilian life to flying for Pan Am on long distance routes. Like many of his generation, he had a different view of the military given his experiences and what he saw (remember, as well, that space flight at the time was conducted solely by military pilots) so his choice at that time isn't that remarkable.

 

[Emberashh]

Reading this as written, you seem to be saying that FKR isn't a game at all; which I think might prove a rather hot take among some here. (disclaimer: I've no horse in that race, merely making an observation)

FKR isn't a game its a philosophy to how to approach roleplaying as a game that aims to put it as close to improv theater as possible.

But regardless, what you might call FKR "The Game", isn't mechanic-less, even when the choice is being made to not use any obvious rule or procedure at all, because that choice in of itself is a mechanic, as is the delineation of player roles between Referee and Player, which is the one thing that distinguishes it from most improv games.

but IMO RPGs can be - and are - defined as being more than just their mechanics

Which doesn't mean you can skimp on the mechanics and still call it a great RPG.

And keep in mind that I mean qualitatively, not quantitatively.

you're doing it a huge disservice, in that stories don't have to be forced in story-now play any more than they do in a hard-coded mechanics-first RPG

Thats my point though, most story now games are forcing it. Ive yet to find one that isn't, and Ive read and even played an obnoxious amount of them.

The "playing a Ranger" piece is exactly equal in all three cases.

It absolutely isn't and I related the precise reason why.

Remember, as a multimedia medium, RPGs have to use both types of media to their strengths. A weak game is not made up by great roleplay or vice versa, even if you personally might be satisfied. (Because if the issue was corrected, you wouldn't be losing out on what satisfied you and you'd get more out of it)

 

[Emberashh]

I don't really understand what you are arguing about with @Tony Vargas, but the quoted bit is so obviously false that I thought it might be worth pointing that out, in case it's relevant to the rest of the discussion.

See this part:

And lets be clear about what I mean by social mechanics; Im talking about trying to set and enforce rules for literally talking to your friends.

I am not referring to basic things like mechanizing NPC reactions (ie, does your Intimidate or Lie succeed), I am referring to trying to make the actual conversation between you, the actual, real life human person and another actual, real life human person, a structured, rule enforced thing segregated from any real, natural conversation

 

[MGibster]

I am breaking my exile on discussing Star Trek to add this one piece of context.

In (slight) defense of Rodenberry, you have to also remember the context of the time. Gene Rodenberry, like most people of his age, served in WW2 (he was in a B17) before transitioning in his civilian life to flying for Pan Am on long distance routes. Like many of his generation, he had a different view of the military given his experiences and what he saw (remember, as well, that space flight at the time was conducted solely by military pilots) so his choice at that time isn't that remarkable.

That's what I'm kind of getting to. At some point Roddenberry kind of went off the deep end. In TOS, the Federation was depicted as being better than what we had in the 1960s but it wasn't really a utopia. They had their own problems they were still working through though but it was a brighter future where humans were able to live harmoniously regardless of race or national origin. And that optimism is a core component of Star Trek which I would never want removed. But I guess Roddenberry wanted the Federation to be some kind of utopia and you don't have a military in a utopia.

And I say he kind of went off the deep end because of what direction he wanted Star Trek to go in. In TOS the crew were sometimes in conflict with one another. No, they weren't pulling one another's hair out or trying to beam each other into space (not counting Mirror Universes), but they didn't always agree with one another. But by the time TNG rolled around, Roddenberry didn't want the crew to have any conflicts than one another because humanity was beyond that. Which is pretty damned boring for any show. He didn't even want a funeral for Tasha Yar because he felt humans would be advanced enough to just accept death as a natural part of life. It's like he forgot what it was to be human.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Will you take it as a given that I'm not lying when I saw plenty of people who treated doing that as a major moral failing at one time, or not? Are they required to be in this thread for me to comment about it?

Oh sure, I believe you. I just don't get that attitude at all. No character is so important that a player needs to be forced to keep playing them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A lot of old-school referees enforce that. If you can just chuck a character or set of stats you don’t like on a whim, why bother rolling. You’ll just cycle through until you get awesome stats and play that character.

I like the idea of making five PCs, keeping three, and giving the other two to the GM for use as NPCs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is why I only use a point-buy system.

Granted, I still think in most cases you should still give the character you rolled a shot. But if they're not working out in play, just drop them off at the next town (or have them wander off into the wilderness, or fade into the back of the party) and you play someone else.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I can see why i was confused. "Social" has come to refer to the social or interaction pillar, as distinct from combat & exploration, which of course, includes, using skills or abilities like intimidate, charm, insight, and so forth.
Not, like, socializing at the table. (??)

I mean, I've seen players try to declare or call for skill checks against eachother, but that's fraught on the same level as PvP.

I'd say its quite a bit worse than PvP, as social mechanics influence how other characters behave, and players often have a bigger problem with being "controlled" than being punched in the face.

 

[Reynard]

I'd say its quite a bit worse than PvP, as social mechanics influence how other characters behave, and players often have a bigger problem with being "controlled" than being punched in the face.

In my experience, players HATE it above all other things. This includes charm and compulsion, but also capture.