Is "GM Agency" A Thing?

[Maxperson]

Really? Every single example in this thread has been a negative. Not one single positive was even suggested. Even the idea of a positive consequence was called unbelievable.

By who? I didn't see that.

 

[Cadence]

RPGs are a conversation. GMs and players can just, you know, talk to one another.
"We want to replace the emperor with a democratic form of government, so we are going to kill him."
"Well, there are some other powerful figures that would absolutely love to fill that vaccuum. You could end up causing a civil war."
"Okay, let's figure out who those are and see if we can manipulate one into being on our side, and we will eliminate the others before we kill the Emperor."
"Okay. Give me a Political Schmooze roll."

Can we now spend 20 pages arguing over why a policical schmooze roll is the appropriate thing to call for here?

But seriously. Having examples of conversations in game feels good for the DMG and/or PHB I think.

 

[Maxperson]

Can we now spend 20 pages arguing over why a policical schmooze roll is the appropriate thing to call for here?

That seems excessive. 12 seems about right.

 

[AnotherGuy]

It can't be color, because color has no impact on anything

That seems extremely limited.
Are you really suggesting that DMs do not sometimes make changes within the living breathing world merely for colour purposes? i.e. it is only used to make impactful changes?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'm not even sure what people mean by "merely colour". In stories how things are described often matters just as much than what is being described. It is affects greatly how things are perceived and how they hit emotionally. So I'm not really comfortable with dismissing expression as "colour" or "pantomime."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Inferred? What non negative consequences have even been hinted at? Negative consequences is the entire point of the conversation.

Consequences could just as easily be neutral or positive. Neither result changes the principles we're talking about.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They’re mostly suggestions? Like if the DM can’t come up with an idea?

And how do they assist with fairness?

Because if you roll on a chart, it's easier for the players to accept that the GM isn't intentionally screwing them over if they get a bad result.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because you have used your declaration of preference to tell others that their ideas aren’t welcome in DnD. And then tried to cover up your preferences in all sorts of verbiage to disguise the fact that you want the dm to retain complete control over the campaign and to oppose even the suggestion that this might not be the best or even only way to play an rpg.

In D&D, that is my preference, yes. I'm not covering that up at all. Not placing any objective value here either, and I'm certainly not saying its the best way (outside of my personal preference) to play an RPG. I don't even consider it a deal breaker outside of D&D.

 

[Maxperson]

That seems extremely limited.
Are you really suggesting that DMs do not sometimes make changes within the living breathing world merely for colour purposes? i.e. it is only used to make impactful changes?

I'm saying that color is filler. If I describe the dungeon wall as mottled grey stone, that's color. It's just descriptive. If I describe the hustle and bustle the marketplace, that's color. It's just descriptive. However, if I have events moving between the counties of Ihateyou and Ihateyoumore and those events lead to war, that's the world moving along independently of the PCs.

The PCs might or might not interact with the war rumors, and if they don't then their actions(or inaction) may relegate the rumors to color status, but the living, breathing events are not inherently color.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It’s not about having to choose between two potentially bad outcomes so much as between two GM stories.

How are either of those GM stories? They're adventure hooks representing the current state of the situation about which they are concerned. If the players bite, you play that out together. If they don't, something else happens that doesn't involve the PCs (because they chose not to involve themselves). The other way to handle it is to have literally nothing happen unless the PCs are involved, which feels far less alive to me than having the GM use some method to generate what happened while they were gone.