What is a "Narrative Mechanic"?

[Reynard]

Honestly, the more I read about people trying to define Narrative in the way indicated by the OP

The OP explicitly did not define "narrative" thank you.

In your own words, not using jargon or other bespoke terminology. What, to you, qualifies as a "narrative mechanic"?

 

[Neonchameleon]

The OP explicitly did not define "narrative" thank you.

My apologies. Definitions given early in the thread.

 

[Campbell]

Right. But this confusion is because Edwards’ definition of simulation is bonkers and lumps conflicting priorities in the same category.

The Right to Dream essay further breaks down the types to High Concept Sim (which is what Dragonlance/Vampire/Pathfinder APs are) and Process Sim (RuneQuest, HERO). I get the argument that they should have been fully separate categories, but lumping in High Concept and Story Now play under the same category (as this thread often does) would also be lumping in conflicting priorities in the same category. I do not understand why that is so difficult for some people to understand (unless they just do not care in the way they accuse Edwards of).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The Right to Dream essay further breaks down the types to High Concept Sim (which is what Dragonlance/Vampire/Pathfinder APs are) and Process Sim (RuneQuest, HERO). I get the argument that they should have been fully separate categories, but lumping in High Concept and Story Now play under the same category (as this thread often does) would also be lumping in conflicting priorities in the same category.

To me the latter would make more sense, but it is not like there can’t be more than three categories.

 

[Aldarc]

To me the latter would make more sense, but it is not like there can’t be more than three categories.

I tend to agree, but I also think that people would still find a way to be offended their the subcategory for their preferred play agenda wasn't its own category. I also don't think that some people would be happy no matter what. Some people get offended that other games outside of their preferences even exist.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And telling a story is not the purpose of narrativism. Centering the game around the dramatic needs of the PCs is.

If you haven't picked this up after literal years of discussing these topics on these forums, many of which you've been centrally involved in, I'm not sure what to tell you.

But if you think an AP is actually narrativist....

Pathfinder doesn't use what I would call narrative mechanics, but it does prioritize telling a story. Jargon aside, that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Pathfinder doesn't use what I would call narrative mechanics, but it does prioritize telling a story. Jargon aside, that's what I'm talking about.

And this is basically what Edwards' essays were a mission statement for. A lot of players want to tell stories as a priority, and the rules didn't help much. Pathfinder's a sim game that people try to use for stories.

 

[Umbran]

I tend to agree, but I also think that people would still find a way to be offended their the subcategory for their preferred play agenda wasn't its own category.

So, that makes it sound less honest than it is.

Anyone who posts on these boards with any frequency should be viewed as pretty devoted hobbyists. We LOVE our games - being a gamer is part of our personal identities. There should not be expectation that folks are going to approach public discussion on the agendas for play, or playstyles, with much detachment.

What you see is not people "finding a way to be offended", so much as it is honest emotional reactions.

Statistically speaking - we have enough folks here with sufficiently varied approaches to play that any categorization will downplay someone's favorites. Nobody (well, almost nobody - we can admit the possibility of concern trolls) is seeking offence - there are just enough people here that you'll always slight someone.

 

[clearstream]

And this is basically what Edwards' essays were a mission statement for. A lot of players want to tell stories as a priority, and the rules didn't help much. Pathfinder's a sim game that people try to use for stories.

It's a mission statement for experiencing the telling of the story in a properly ludic-mode, as both audience and author. And, concretely, aiming for a dramatic experience/enactment of narrative in which premises are resolved authorially. Experiencing the resolution as author of the resolution, rather than having it authored for you.

In a sense, it admits that elements of the story might well be pre-authored or authored by others. But it wants the crucial authorship of dramatic narrative - resolution of premises / protagonism - to be part of play. This is the same ludic-dichotomy noted by others such as Sicart (whose interest was in its consequences for ethics.)

If this is to be used to constrain the definition of narrative mechanics, then they must be connected with the dramatic arc.

 

[TwoSix]

Pathfinder doesn't use what I would call narrative mechanics, but it does prioritize telling a story. Jargon aside, that's what I'm talking about.

It's hard to put "jargon aside" in a discussion that was recently centering on the formative essays that helped define the jargon.