What is a "Narrative Mechanic"?

pemerton

Legend
We'll never agree on this point. I cannot read Edwards and discern any genuine empathy for simulationism. Rather an intelligent dissection that just like his earlier brutal version struggles to identify the creative motives of simulationists. Entirely unlike his writing on narrativism.
I first read Edwards after I had been GMing Rolemaster consistently for about 15 years. At that point, multiple 1000s of hours. And his discussion of purist-for-system RPGing is the most insightful of any I know. It was one of the things that enabled me to successfully conclude an 11 year campaign, after the previous 8 year one foundered in the early-to-mid 20th levels.

The grasp is profound in my view.
 

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clearstream

(He, Him)
I first read Edwards after I had been GMing Rolemaster consistently for about 15 years. At that point, multiple 1000s of hours. And his discussion of purist-for-system RPGing is the most insightful of any I know. It was one of the things that enabled me to successfully conclude an 11 year campaign, after the previous 8 year one foundered in the early-to-mid 20th levels.

The grasp is profound in my view.
Predictably, I would put that down to his intelligent dissection of techniques! For example, he presents an interesting analysis of fortune-at-the-end as a prominent technique of simulationism based on hit location systems such as RuneQuest's. But he mistakenly assumes that fortune-in-the-middle must be intolerable to simulationists because he mistakes techniques for creative motives.
 




I first read Edwards after I had been GMing Rolemaster consistently for about 15 years. At that point, multiple 1000s of hours. And his discussion of purist-for-system RPGing is the most insightful of any I know. It was one of the things that enabled me to successfully conclude an 11 year campaign, after the previous 8 year one foundered in the early-to-mid 20th levels.

The grasp is profound in my view.

Understandable. I'm sure that after 15 years of Rolemaster I'd hate simulationism too, and would find Edwards relatable.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
We'll never agree on this point. I cannot read Edwards and discern any genuine empathy for simulationism. Rather an intelligent dissection that just like his earlier "brutal" version struggles to identify the creative motives of simulationists. Entirely unlike his writing on narrativism.
The man purported to create a system that covers all types of gaming while simultaneously holding up one clearly above the others and explicitly putting down another multiple times on the record. And then a lot of people decided he was right and held his model to be the "correct" one, driving game design for decades away from the type of games I most prefer. So no I don't like Ron Edwsrds and the Forge.

Narrativism should have its champions; its a perfectly valid gaming style and deserves its place in the community alongside everything else. I wish its most influential early champion had been just about anyone other than Ron Edwards.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
The man purported to create a system that covers all types of gaming while simultaneously holding up one clearly above the others and explicitly putting down another multiple times on the record. And then a lot of people decided he was right and held his model to be the "correct" one, driving game design for decades away from the type of games I most prefer. So no I don't like Ron Edwsrds and the Forge.

Narrativism should have its champions; its a perfectly valid gaming style and deserves its place in the community alongside everything else. I wish its most influential early champion had been just about anyone other than Ron Edwards.
Perhaps, but those writings weren't meant to be an antiseptic, taxonomic categorization of the current gaming playstyles. They were meant to be an intellectual challenge to the detailed setting and metaplot-heavy designs (classic hallmarks of Sim priorities) that were the overwhelming orthodoxy within game design at the turn of the century.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Perhaps, but those writings weren't meant to be an antiseptic, taxonomic categorization of the current gaming playstyles. They were meant to be an intellectual challenge to the detailed setting and metaplot-heavy designs (classic hallmarks of Sim priorities) that were the overwhelming orthodoxy within game design at the turn of the century.
So? They are still the assumed model for how all RPGs are categorized, and Edwards' creation of the Forge and his Fire & Brimstone rhetoric vilified an entire gaming style to the point where very few simulationist games have been developed in the last 20 years. That lack can be directly traced back to anti-simulation, pro-narrativist propaganda from Edwards and the Forge.
 

So? They are still the assumed model for how all RPGs are categorized, and Edwards' creation of the Forge and his Fire & Brimstone rhetoric vilified an entire gaming style to the point where very few simulationist games have been developed in the last 20 years. That lack can be directly traced back to anti-simulation, pro-narrativist propaganda from Edwards and the Forge.
... are you kidding me? There have been lots of both genre and physics sims (two very different categories) and only one small corner of the internet cares about Edwards.

Pathfinder is a physics sim - and the entire OSR is post Edwards. And the reason they are less and less popular is computers do it better.
 

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