D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[doctorbadwolf]

The problem with the Warlock for me, that he is three classes in one thematically, that would actually be subclasses of either a wizard, sorcerer or a cleric.

In 5e RAW lore Warlocks get their magic trough two ways:

- first by orrowing power from another being like clerics do - so that power can also be taken away, because it is not theirs, when they break the pact. that makes them thenatically basically clerics of Demons/Fey/...

Or

- second they get their power by bargenaing for knowledge to gain power. That power is their own and it can't be taken away. It's the equivalent of a backalley wizard who goes to back alles Shops to buy forbidden knowledge.They don't care about the theoretical foundations, they just want to work this magic.

- or 3 their body/magic gets changed so they can do stuff like unlimited disguise self / alter self / mage armor / better darkvision / Eldritch Blast that is stronger than cantrips that can be learned. In essence an Eldritch sorcerer.

And they try to squeeze these three different magical concepts into one mechanical Warlock class.

So, if I would redo the Warlock, I either would make it into three subclasses (a back alley wizard/hedge witch; an demon/devil/fey cleric; an Eldritch sorcerer who gets their innate magic trough a pact)

Or

I would build a feat based Warlock class. Because a Warlock is rooted in its thirst for (easy) power, so I why would he only limited himself to one way (borrowing it like a cleric, learning like a wizard or mutate like a sorcerer).
So, rename invocations and turn them into feat chains/categories. One for wizard spells/abilities, one for cleric spells/abilities, one for sorcerer spells/abilities. So the Warlock needs to find the knowledge for the wizard abilities either by black market means or deals with higher powers, he needs to become a servant of a demon or fey for access to cleric spells/abilities and he needs to find ways to alter his body/magic to get sorcerer like magic. I would also put higher feats behind skill/atrribute requisites. So high-level wizard stuff needs a minimum arcana proficiency, sorcerer abilities need high enough constitution. Cleric stuff doesn't need anything, but it can be taken away if the Warlock angers his patron.
Now with the feat based Warlock Class players can choose trough the game mechanics throughout the play, where their Warlock gets their power from and not only from what they pick at level 1.

Putting certain abilities behind skill/attribute requirements is something I would incorporate for all classes. But I would also redo the while skill system ...

Nah the existing warlock is pretty thematically solid, and mechanically a blast to play. If they manage to fix the spell horsing behavior some folks feel stuck in with them, the class doesn’t need much else.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nah the existing warlock is pretty thematically solid, and mechanically a blast to play. If they manage to fix the spell horsing behavior some folks feel stuck in with them, the class doesn’t need much else.

Warlocks more or less fine where it's at. Scores high on the fun front as well.

 

[Quartz]

So the question is: what specifically can D&D 5E do to fix this problem?

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'plus thread' and I'm 20 pages late but anyway, for me a big problem is that the Fighter isn't actually very good at fighting, both offensively and defensively, and you have to use Action Surge for combat instead of one of its many non-combat uses. Fighters also pall in comparison to Paladins (thanks to additional Radiant damage) & Rangers (thanks to persistent Hunters' Mark & other effects) in Tier 3 in general combat.

Fixes:

1st level - Defensive Bonus: Your base Armour Class can become 10 + Armour + Defensive Bonus. Your Defensive Bonus is the lower of your Proficiency Bonus and your levels in the Fighter class and is limited by armour as your Dex bonus is (e.g. max of +2 with Medium Armour). You may add to your AC with a shield, Fighting Styles, magic, and the like. Your Defensive Bonus may not be used with Unarmoured Defence.

2nd level - Action Surge - Fighters get non-Attack Action Surges equal to the lower of their levels in the Fighter class and their Proficiency Bonus to take Actions that cannot be used for attacks (q.v. Rogue's Cunning Action). Fighters also get Action Surges that can be used for attacks at 2nd and 13th levels.

4th level - Indomitable gets brought forward to 4th level and becomes an auto-save, like Legendary Resistance except it also works on no-save situations. You get additional uses at 9th and 17th levels.

5th level - Consistent Attack: when you take an action other than the Attack or Cast a Spell action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to make one weapon attack.

6th level, - Instead of the feat, Fighters get either an additional Reaction or an additional Bonus Action (their choice) per round. At 14th level, again instead of the feat, Fighters get both.

8th level - Combat Readiness: you may use the lower of your levels in the Fighter class and your Proficiency Bonus instead of any other stat bonus when calculating initiative. Feats are cumulative with this. (Note that this solves the TWF problem.)

12th level - Sixth Sense: at 12th level your base passive Wisdom (Perception) scores become the better of 10 + Proficiency Bonus or 10 + Wisdom modifier and you may use your Proficiency Bonus instead of your Wisdom modifier when making active Wisdom (Perception) rolls.

 

[Raiztt]

The problem has never been the way spells work mechanically, or the simulationist assumption of the game world being an analog to the real world + magic.

The problem is just specific spells are too powerful and the solution is for those spells to not exist. Simple as.

 

[TwoSix]

No, I like videogames just fine. And if I want to play a videogame, I play a videogame. But I don't need my RPGs to try to awkwardly emulate them.

I don't think anyone is arguing for a TTRPG to "awkwardly emulate" a video game. It's a question of recognizing and borrowing the video game tropes that have become a part of common fantasy conceptions.

 

[TwoSix]

Nah the existing warlock is pretty thematically solid, and mechanically a blast to play. If they manage to fix the spell horsing behavior some folks feel stuck in with them, the class doesn’t need much else.

Agreed. Warlock is one of the very few classes that has a solid skeleton, it mostly just needs some tweaks.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don't think anyone is arguing for a TTRPG to "awkwardly emulate" a video game. It's a question of recognizing and borrowing the video game tropes that have become a part of common fantasy conceptions.

I think it's quite the opposite though. We got started on this tangent because of how 5e style powerful no cost unlimited attack cantrips seem to emulate nothing but certain types of video games while consuming power budget better off left allocated to class elements that are more central to the core elements of caster classes

 

[Vaalingrade]

'Nothing but emulate certain videogames' here being a placeholder for 'removes the D&Dism of wizards being reduced to crossbow users after one spell'.

 

[tetrasodium]

'Nothing but emulate certain videogames' here being a placeholder for 'removes the D&Dism of wizards being reduced to crossbow users after one spell'.

Hardly and I've even posted to the contrary quite a few times in the past, recently even. Consumable scrolls wands and longer lasting (de)buffs were more important.

 

[Raiztt]

'Nothing but emulate certain videogames' here being a placeholder for 'removes the D&Dism of wizards being reduced to crossbow users after one spell'.

Thought you wanted to nerf casters.