D&D (2024) Elves without racism [+]

[Horwath]

For Perception, the "Proficiency" feels cultural rather than innate. But I am ok with Advantage, where even an untrained can benefit.

it's irrelevant how it feels, we should focus on mechanical benefits and is it innate/genetic or something trained/learned.

Because 5e got rid of most bonuses for the sacred altar of bounded accuracy, we cannot have racial/species bonuses.

I would personally slap a +4 to Perception for all elves and be done with it.
And since we cannot have that, proficiency+expertise is next best thing.

I would not have global advantage as that is IMHO a temporary and circumstantial benefit.

As for darkvision, add it to the list of Elven superior senses.

 

[Remathilis]

You want species to be purely aesthetic? With things like flight or water breathing being cultural? As that's what's being talked about in that article.

Honestly, when I see stuff like this, I legitimately question how long D&D can keep being a class and race system. It's becoming evident that any sort of species traits will be viewed as bioexistentialism, and people have chaffed against classes being restrictive (and what should even be a class). I can imagine when 6e finally comes about, it will resemble a more Mutants and Masterminds style of PC building...

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Honestly, when I see stuff like this, I legitimately question how long D&D can keep being a class and race system. It's becoming evident that any sort of species traits will be viewed as bioexistentialism, and people have chaffed against classes being restrictive (and what should even be a class). I can imagine when 6e finally comes about, it will resemble a more Mutants and Masterminds style of PC building...

Pathfinder 3e gonna be real popular if DnD drops the the class system and the option for diverse species.

 

[Remathilis]

Pathfinder 3e gonna be real popular if DnD drops the the class system and the option for diverse species.

If Pathfinder doesn't get there first. It's already taken most class and species traits and sliced them thin into feats. You just need to allow for ala carte feat selection (with certain restrictions) and you're mostly there.

 

[Bagpuss]

Anyway, "raised by elves" is a fun character concept that can invite player immersion, and in Forgotten Realms there are many places where Elves include Nonelves.

If you offer a mechanical benefit for being “raised by elves” and no drawback it stops being a fun character concept and becomes a optimisation build requirement.

You can’t have a system like this in isolation. There need to be similar “cultural” benefits for other species, that they lose if they decide to be “raised by elves”

 

[Bagpuss]

One quote from it: "It’s always associating historically heroic races with Western and Northern European traits. And then my immediate response to that is what accent does an orc have?” The responses, he noted, are not ‘they sound British."

Clearly not been asking any Warhammer players…

 

[Yaarel]

If you offer a mechanical benefit for being “raised by elves” and no drawback it stops being a fun character concept and becomes a optimisation build requirement.

It seems fun.

If a player wants a concept of being "raised by elves", the character sheet will reflect this. The languages are probably: Elvish and Common, plus something like Sylvan or Celestial, or maybe Drowic Sign or Abyssal. The languages encourage future contact with Elves. The Personality Bond will be with ones own elven family members or with elven locations, or perhaps an elven faction.

There will be opportunity costs. Taking a Mythal Feat means not taking an other kind of background Feat.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Clearly not been asking any Warhammer players…

Warhammer was where I first got into the genre from. Learning that orcs were not british was a shock.

 

[Yaarel]

it's irrelevant how it feels, we should focus on mechanical benefits and is it innate/genetic or something trained/learned.

Because 5e got rid of most bonuses for the sacred altar of bounded accuracy, we cannot have racial/species bonuses.

I would personally slap a +4 to Perception for all elves and be done with it.
And since we cannot have that, proficiency+expertise is next best thing.

I would not have global advantage as that is IMHO a temporary and circumstantial benefit.

As for darkvision, add it to the list of Elven superior senses.

When I think about the character concept of a 4e [Wood] Elf, the Perception improvement makes much sense. The Elf is wholeheartedly enthusiastic about the Material Plane, and the natural wilderness that matter offers. A Wisdom improvement coheres with druidic Primal Magic, and the attunement of animalistic forms and senses. This tree-hugging Elf reminds me of the British faeries who Shakespeare describes, who are nocturnal. The Wood Elf is alive bodily. The heightened Perception is a thematic part of this holistic concept.

But when I think of the character concept of a 4e Eladrin [Elf], the Elf is an otherworldly Fey spirit, whose innate teleportations convey its immateriality. The Feywild landscapes are unnatural. The Elf is a sage of magic, lost in thought in an ivory tower (sometimes literally), pouring over grimoires and theorems to unlock new magics, wielding innately magic, with an Intelligence boost and perhaps a Charisma boost for local Fey Court politics. Perception makes no sense here. I prefer the Arcana improvement as the thematic part of this holistic concept.

These two character concepts are great for individual characters, rather than a stereotype for an entire race. But as individual persons, the concepts are awesome to roleplay.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

If Pathfinder doesn't get there first. It's already taken most class and species traits and sliced them thin into feats. You just need to allow for ala carte feat selection (with certain restrictions) and you're mostly there.

Most of those feats have a species or class requirement though. They also have more classes than DnD 5e.

Overall the system is a bit too complex for me, but I like little bits of it over their equivalent in 5e. I like pathfinder 2e having more build choice than dnd 5e, but having to pick from dozens of feats almost every level is insane.