D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Yaarel]

Overall, I really like these changes and hope the underperforming leveled spells will get a similar treatment. Especially when it comes to choosing attack cantrips, I think the updates do a good job of making more options competitive Firebolt while also avoiding power creep beyond it.

Yeah. There is a decent sense of how much design space a cantrip is worth.

Blade Ward raises eyebrows, but I will think on it before judging it.

I do think that, while the playtest version of True Strike is a good option, it isn't the same spell as 2014 True Strike in any meaningful sense. I'd prefer to treat it as a new spell with a new name and then consider whether there's a way to make a cantrip that fills True Strike's original accuracy-boosting niche viable.

Heh. I prefer to completely replace True Strike, pretend the 2014 version never happened, and never speak of it again.

Tho I agree an accuracy design that is balanced is appealing if possible.

As for Friends, with the catastrophic drawback removed, I think it's worth asking how large a bonus to social interactions it's really appropriate for a cantrip to give. My answer would be something on the order of +1d4 to a roll, which is of course what you can already get by casting Guidance before the interaction.

Guidance is a good comparison, since +1d4 feels similar to the Advantage that the Charmed condition gives. The main difference for Persuasion is, Friends also guarantees while the target is Charmed it wont attack the charmer.

 

[mellored]

Yes. I know this.

And that +6 doesn't actually get them 'striking true' any more than those guys built to use weapons. It's a 'single serious punch' for someone who isn't Saitama.

It's a 'Basically Competent Strike'

You're going to have to nerf damage a lot if you want it to be magic missile-y.

Because as is, a true strike + longbow will deal more damage than firebolt at longer range. With better damage type and maybe some magic items.

 

[Stalker0]

Me: I'm thinking of taking the Friends cantrip. How does it work at your table?

So what your saying is:

Me: Hey DM I am going to go through all 15 of my known spells, and see how they work at your table.

DM: Sigh

an hour later...

 

[Stalker0]

So lets think of this way. Your playing a 5th level caster, lets say a Bard, a Wizard, and a Cleric. So which cantrips do you actually take now all said and done?

 

[Mistwell]

So what your saying is:

Me: Hey DM I am going to go through all 15 of my known spells, and see how they work at your table.

DM: Sigh

an hour later...

No? You only ask about the spells which are fairly open to interpretation. Like always. You ask about how illusions work in the campaign, not how magic missile works.

 

[Stalker0]

No? You only ask about the spells which are fairly open to interpretation. Like always. You ask about how illusions work in the campaign, not how magic missile works.

You mean whether magic missile triggers 3 concentration checks or one?

 

[Mistwell]

You mean whether magic missile triggers 3 concentration checks or one?

Fair point.

 

[Vaalingrade]

• If a L5 Wizard has a 10 Str and 18 Int, they have a +3 to attack and deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage (2-handed) with a quarterstaff they are proficient with, as an Action. That sounds like a basically competent strike.
• If True Strike just gave Heroic Advantage as a Bonus Action, that L5 Wizard would still have to use their Action to attack, and only get a +3 to attack, and deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage. That's still not good.
• With the current playtest version of True Strike, that same Wizard would get a +7 to attack, and deal 1d8+1d6+4 (3-18) radiant damage. They still have their Bonus Action for shenanigans (maybe even shenanigans that can further enhance their effectiveness). That is way more accurate and hits harder.

Are you saying that they should get all of that, and advantage? That would be +7 to attack with advantage, dealing 1d8+1d6+4 radiant damage, as an Action, and still have a Bonus Action? Every weapon-using character that can get an arcane cantrip will take this spell. Every Arcane Trickster will always have advantage.

I think it's fine as-is.

I'm fine with this being a spell. I'd just also like True Strike that's... you are very super likely to hit... instead of being not-sad.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not a burden for someone to just ask "Hey Bob, I'm thinking about taking this cantrip but the rules are vague/confusing/too mathematically laborious/over-defined to the point of uselessness/etc., how would you handle it?" and for Bob to reply "I'd handle it like this..." in a day or two.

It's even less of a burden to just design the spell in the first place.

 

[CleverNickName]

So what your saying is:

I said nothing of the sort, but you already knew that.