D&D General Wizard vs Fighter - the math

[Crimson Longinus]

Wizard: That's 3 fireballs. Time to pack it up. We need to go home.
Fighter: You still have plenty of magic left.
Wizard: That's got to last us until we get back to Woody Pines. In case we run into more random goblin raid parties or another draconic bear. (stares at DM)
Cleric: It's not like we found any safe places to rest for a week on the way here. (stares at DM) I'm on half spells too. Too bad for the lord's son. Won't make it back by the full moon.
Rogue: Can't save him if we're dead too. (stares at DM) Welp. At least I got this +1 dagger.

So the players actually had to think about their resources and there was a meaningful non-PC-death defeat condition? Quelle horreur!

 

[Minigiant]

So the players actually had to think about their resources and there was a meaningful non-PC-death defeat condition? Quelle horreur!

The player also completed no quests or adventures without the DM openly promising safe travels and safe housing

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The player also completed no quests or adventures without the DM openly promising safe travels and safe housing

Right. That seems like an obvious GM mistake.

 

[Minigiant]

Right. That seems like an obvious GM mistake.

There's no assumption of 7 days of safe housing traveling to the dungeons in base D&D.

 

[Oofta]

There's no assumption of 7 days of safe housing traveling to the dungeons in base D&D.

Why is that an issue? Traveling through dangerous lands should be risky.

 

[FrozenNorth]

To add to these points:

Just because the referee can make house rules and fix the problems with the system does not mean those problems no longer exist within the system itself.

And DMs fixing these problems takes time and effort of which DMs have a limited amount.
If I’m creating a mid-level encounter for a party, I can spend my time ensuring the enemies can’t be virtually completely shut down by a well-placed Web, Slow or Hypnotic pattern for each encounter, but that leaves less time for crafting interesting adventure hooks, fantastic environments and compelling NPCs.

Fixing a problem at my table only fixes the problem at my table. The point of most of these discussions is about fixing the problem with the system itself.

And also means that I can’t expect balance if I play in someone else’s game.

 

[Minigiant]

Why is that an issue? Traveling through dangerous lands should be risky.

Because it encourages 5MWD by draining resources with gritty rules

 

[Oofta]

To add to these points:

And DMs fixing these problems takes time and effort of which DMs have a limited amount.
If I’m creating a mid-level encounter for a party, I can spend my time ensuring the enemies can’t be virtually completely shut down by a well-placed Web, Slow or Hypnotic pattern for each encounter, but that leaves less time for crafting interesting adventure hooks, fantastic environments and compelling NPCs.


And also means that I can’t expect balance if I play in someone else’s game.

It doesn't really take any more time once you decide to set up encounters where enemies aren't automatically funneled into fireball formation.

 

[Oofta]

Because it encourages 5MWD by draining resources with gritty rules

That sentence makes no sense. One main reason to use gritty rest rules is to make it easier to push PCs so the casters can't go nova every encounter.

 

[FrozenNorth]

There are plenty of threads I ignore on this topic. Meanwhile every single thread that's even somewhat related to fighter gets dragged into this exact same topic and back-and-forth.

This thread is titled « Wizard vs. Fighter - the Math » What did you think it was going to be about?

You telling me that I can't express my opinion? That I can't offer advice? That I'm pragmatic about options? Sorry, not sorry about that.

Hey if the thread title is Wizard vs. Fighter, maybe don’t complain about how it’s about how Fighters can’t compete with wizards.