D&D 5E The core issue of the martial/caster gap is just the fundamental design of d20 fantasy casters.

[ECMO3]

The class can have flexibility without giving free reign over that flexibility to every character of that class.


Wizard fans are the worst. They can't accept not being top dog and they have WAY too much power over the discourse. WotC always folding backwards in four to please them...

I think most players - playing both Wizards and non-Wizards like this design and I think few if any are going to want to change that.

That's because you're not a Wizard Fan. The Wizard Fan fantasy is really simple:

I would argue this is not Wizard Fan fantasy, but D&D Fan fantasy.

Also it is rare that Wizards have the spells in their book and unheard of that they have them prepared to be as effective across the board as implied here.

Typically Wizards have 4 spells per level after 1st to choose from, sometimes it is lots more than that, but I think it is lower than 5 more often than it is more than 5. Then they are further limited in play by the number they can prepare which typically comes down to slightly more than 2 spells a level.

So While Protection from Evil and Good is boss when you are fighting a Vampire, and cheap on a 1st-level slot, you probably don't have that prepared unless you know you will be fighting a Vampire.

 

[Scribe]

I would argue this is not Wizard Fan fantasy, but D&D Fan fantasy.

D&D fans, do not want Wizard overlords.

 

[Clint_L]

Agreed; these discussion always seem to assume that spell casters are optimized for every encounter, when that is patently not the case. In fact, I think it is the fundamental design difference between spellcasters and martial classes: martial classes are optimized for most encounters but their options are relatively limited, while spellcasters are non-optimized for most encounters but their options are relatively vast.

 

[ECMO3]

D&D fans, do not want Wizard overlords.

I disagree with that based on play experience and playtest feedback.

Every time WOTC tries to nerf the Wizard (or Sorcerer) they are met with an avalanche of negative feedback, further things like Cantrip Formulas, which really empower the Wizard and making all the raceial and feat spells castable with spell slots over other classes are hugely popular.

I have never heard a player at a table complain about those things.

 

[Scribe]

I disagree with that based on play experience and playtest feedback.

Every time WOTC tries to nerf the Wizard (or Sorcerer) they are met with an avalanche of negative feedback, further things like Cantrip Formulas, which really empower the Wizard and making all the raceial and feat spells castable with spell slots over other classes are hugely popular.

I have never heard a player at a table complain about those things.

Yes, there are many biased Casters.

That doesnt change the fact that it is nowhere near a unanimous "D&D Fan" position that Wizards should be god tier, with everyone else at B or lower.

 

[ECMO3]

Yes, there are many biased Casters.

That doesnt change the fact that it is nowhere near a unanimous "D&D Fan" position that Wizards should be god tier, with everyone else at B or lower.

I did not say it is unanimous, if it was threads like this would not even exist. But I do think it is a majority of D&D fans, enough that it is a general position, vice a position of Wizard players specifically.

There is a small minority of players who actually play Wizards, I think support for powerful Wizard it is far more than just the "Wizard fans".

 

[overgeeked]

Yes, there are many biased Casters.

That doesnt change the fact that it is nowhere near a unanimous "D&D Fan" position that Wizards should be god tier, with everyone else at B or lower.

Most of the responses to all these threads and the fact that the designers just keep giving more and more power to casters suggests at least a majority hold exactly that position. Or at least the only people who's opinion counts, the designers.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Most of the responses to all these threads and the fact that the designers just keep giving more and more power to casters suggests at least a majority hold exactly that position. Or at least the only people who's opinion counts, the designers.

The majority they care about. Like back in the Next playtest.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I disagree with that based on play experience and playtest feedback.

Every time WOTC tries to nerf the Wizard (or Sorcerer) they are met with an avalanche of negative feedback, further things like Cantrip Formulas, which really empower the Wizard and making all the raceial and feat spells castable with spell slots over other classes are hugely popular.

I have never heard a player at a table complain about those things.

Players tend not to complain about stuff that gives them more power.

 

[ECMO3]

Some of the "fixes" people are talking about, like restricting spell schools, are things they specifically and purposefully moved away from. They did not do that for no reason.