D&D 5E Justin Alexander's review of Shattered Obelisk is pretty scathing

[Nikosandros]

Really? For every game? For every decision? A little sidebar with an explanation for every reason for every change they make? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable demand to you?

Every specific little thing is quite unreasonable, but a general discussion about design philosophy would be great. AD&D 2e changed its philosophy but left in place many rules designed for a different style and, IMO, it suffered for it. 4e was not (again, IMHO), very clear about several of its assumptions and I initially struggled with several of its choices, until I figured out what the deal was.

 

[mamba]

To get to the point and stop rambling, there are many different ways to present adventures, and there is certainly no one right way to do it.

but there are better and worse ways to do it in a given medium…

 

[Parmandur]

Im not saying you have to agree with justin or disagree with him, im not even makign the same point as him, im saying that i feel this is just worse then doing what they did before even for small areas, and its just makes it harder to run for no good reason, and i think that is worth criticizing. And i think it shows a lack of care in a 30 to 50 dollar product, im happy your well off enough that this is nothing for you, but their is probably more entertaining things and better RPG books you can get for the same price, then a book that barely cares about the organization of the simplest things, what hope do they have for the care of larger things, which reading that adventure, i dont think they cared much about that stuff either.
Like if you think them making worse for the same price is okay, more power to you, i want better or at least the standard we had not worse. But at that point i dont think anyone should care much about what you have to say since you clearly dont care much at all here, why are you even here if your happy with everything, and dont have anything meaningful to add.

I do have something meaningful to add: letting people who haven't read the Adventure known that the Clickbaiter is misrepresenting basic facts, which should be accounted for when judging his review.

No, I do not think it is at all worse organization to not key a single standalone room. Nor do I think that impacts value or indicates lack of care by the writers in any shape or form.

 

[Stormonu]

Got a feeling the lack of Keys on some of the maps may be for VTT integration (and thusly not having to create a player/DM version).

Still, I would not have a problem with the room not having a numbered breakdown if they did something akin to the below, it'd work for me for a small area.

Room X - Main Area. [Text block description] Features & whatnot.

Left Wing. [Optional supplementary text block] Features & whatnot.

Right Wing. [Optional supplementary text block] Features & whatnot.

If the side areas had significant info and weren't somehow blocked out, that is problematic.

 

[darjr]

Got a feeling the lack of Keys on some of the maps may be for VTT integration (and thusly not having to create a player/DM version).

Still, not having the room info handy if they did something akin to the below, it'd work for me for a small area.

Room X - Main Area. [Text block description] Features & whatnot.

Left Wing. [Optional supplementary text block] Features & whatnot.

Right Wing. [Optional supplementary text block] Features & whatnot.

If the side areas had significant info and weren't somehow blocked out, that is problematic.

They literally are. Says west wing and east wing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Really? For every game? For every decision? A little sidebar with an explanation for every reason for every change they make? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable demand to you?

If the design team wants people to know why they designed the way they did, they should say so, at least in the core book, or the product where the shift occurred.

 

[RangerWickett]

For me, the key principle for area description (and mapping) is "don't bury the lead."

I agree with your premise. Just chiming in for pedantry, because that figure of speech is actually spelled in an unexpected way due to its origin: Why Do We 'Bury the Lede?'

 

[Micah Sweet]

Every specific little thing is quite unreasonable, but a general discussion about design philosophy would be great. AD&D 2e changed its philosophy but left in place many rules designed for a different style and, IMO, it suffered for it. 4e was not (again, IMHO), very clear about several of its assumptions and I initially struggled with several of its choices, until I figured out what the deal was.

This is what I'm saying, yes. For example, eventually I understood what 4e was going for and respected it (even if I didn't like it personally), but it would have been much appreciated if I had known that up front. Would have saved me a lot of money, for starters.

 

[Parmandur]

For me, the key principle for area description (and mapping) is "don't bury the lead."

On the area description, whether it's bullet points or paragraphs, the essential information needs to come first. Essential does not mean room size/area, excessively purple prose, etc. It does mean the immediate character of the room in terms of the senses (esp. anything foreshadowing threat/clues/secrets) & obvious monsters. Not all areas need to prioritize the same info either – eg. hard-coding area descriptions like Adventurer's League does with a section for Lighting is not always necessary if it's a market where you're more interested in evoking a feeling, or if the entire castle has the same lighting throughout.

On maps, if the map uses 1-99 or A-Z room labeling, I consider best practice to either have a key on the same page as the map listing (1 = Temple Sanctum, 2 = Mimic Holy Font, etc) or to just have the room descriptions right there on the map if there's space. Only if the map is very artistic and detailed (some isometric maps achieve this) would I consider it acceptable to forgo a key or "room description right there on the map."

I'll post the relevant text latter for a closer analysis.

 

[FallenRX]

I do have something meaningful to add: letting people who haven't read the Adventure known that the Clickbaiter is misrepresenting basic facts, which should be accounted for when judging his review.

No, I do not think it is at all worse organization to not key a single standalone room. Nor do I think that impacts value or indicates lack of care by the writers in any shape or form.

Did he? They didnt key a part of the dungeon, that happened, and put the information is large paragraphs and also didnt label them on the map making it a harder reference then otherwise.

And the worst part is that isnt even what your arguing youve been arguing "Oh well its okay becuase idk i dont care, its not that much money, i just like worse" without adding anything why its better, or easier to use then just...labelling the map or using a normal key. Like again its just a decrease and quality and is harder to reference for the benefit...of no one.